Nota de Telefe Noticias del 21 de junio de 2013. Bravo por nuestros VGM !!!
http://telefenoticias.com.ar/es/new...ntes-vuelven-corren-ganan-maraton/19430.shtml
http://telefenoticias.com.ar/es/new...ntes-vuelven-corren-ganan-maraton/19430.shtml
Noticias relativas al conflicto
- Tema iniciado Daniel G. Gionco
- Fecha de inicio
Daniel, alli estare
Tarkus40
Colaborador
Anoche se realizó la presentación del CNAV VGM A. Bedacarratz referente al ataque al HMS Sheffield.
Estuvo muy buena Una hora de presentación y porteriormente una hora de preguntas de los participantes. Sinceramente se puso tan apasionante la conversación que como organizadores tuvimos que cerrar la charla porque no le daban respiro al hombre!!!
La misma contó con la presencia de 90 participantes y entre ellos VGM, variosForistas de Histarmar y Foristas de Zonamilitar (creo que por lo menos había unos 15 )y varios cronistas de publicaciones y sitios de Defensa a quienes desde la Fundación Histarmar les agradecemos su presencia e interés.
Para la segunda mitad del año se están programando más actividades de este tipo. Los mantendré informados apenas tengamos un calendario.
Slds
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Estuvo muy buena Una hora de presentación y porteriormente una hora de preguntas de los participantes. Sinceramente se puso tan apasionante la conversación que como organizadores tuvimos que cerrar la charla porque no le daban respiro al hombre!!!
La misma contó con la presencia de 90 participantes y entre ellos VGM, variosForistas de Histarmar y Foristas de Zonamilitar (creo que por lo menos había unos 15 )y varios cronistas de publicaciones y sitios de Defensa a quienes desde la Fundación Histarmar les agradecemos su presencia e interés.
Para la segunda mitad del año se están programando más actividades de este tipo. Los mantendré informados apenas tengamos un calendario.
Slds
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Daniel G. Gionco
Veterano Guerra de Malvinas
El capitán Bedacarratz estuvo sencillo y brillante en su exposición, lo que es difícil de lograr.
Tuvo una generosa disposición a responder consultas muy variadas, que fueron muy profundas.
Entre otras cosas, comentó que cuando se les acabaron los 5 Exocet, se pusieron a practicar para lanzar bombas con los Etendard mientras esperaban que apareciesen eventuales misiles Exocet de paises amigos.
También describió cómo se dispersaban los pilotos y los aviones fuera de la base. Los primeros en variados hoteles y albergues; y los segundos en las rutas y hasta dentro de la ciudad de Río Grande.
Asimismo transmitió su certeza en que un misil le pegó al Invincible y piensa que los 2 misiles le pegaron al Sheffield, penetrando por el mismo agujero.
Felicitaciones a la gente de Histarmar y sería bueno que se puedan reproducir algunas de las ilustraciones que acompañaron la disertación, com la de los "perfiles" de los radares de las "tipo 42".
S
SnAkE_OnE
Permitame disentir en cuanto a la profundidad de las preguntas, la mayoria han sido bastante superficiales, sobre rumores o tendenciosas. Ha sido de GRAN valor tener tambien como complemento..al entonces Cdte de Rio Grande.
Puntualmente lo que dijo no fue que se dedicaron a lanzar bombas, sino que en ese tiempo debian comenzar a alistar los sistemas y mas que nada se buscaba hacer experiencia y calificacion en operaciones nocturnas, que lo que hicieron tambien fue esperar mas misiles que supuestamente estarian procurando.
Extiendo tambien mis felicitaciones, tanto por la eleccion del lugar, el expositor y la posibilidad de acercarlo a muchos que..por lo menos para mi...fue la primera vez que pudimos verlo en persona!
Puntualmente lo que dijo no fue que se dedicaron a lanzar bombas, sino que en ese tiempo debian comenzar a alistar los sistemas y mas que nada se buscaba hacer experiencia y calificacion en operaciones nocturnas, que lo que hicieron tambien fue esperar mas misiles que supuestamente estarian procurando.
Extiendo tambien mis felicitaciones, tanto por la eleccion del lugar, el expositor y la posibilidad de acercarlo a muchos que..por lo menos para mi...fue la primera vez que pudimos verlo en persona!
Disculpen.
¿Hay alguna clase de registro (audio, video, trascripción, ect) de la charla?
A veces odio no vivir en Capital.
¿Hay alguna clase de registro (audio, video, trascripción, ect) de la charla?
A veces odio no vivir en Capital.
S
SnAkE_OnE
Caesar creo que lo filmo.
Tarkus40
Colaborador
Como aclaración de lo que describió Daniel del accionar de los SUE una vez consumidos los 5 misiles, el Sr aclaró que lo único del sistema de armas que habían puesto operativo era el sistema Exocet y que las bombas no habían sido probadas aún y que una vez ubicados en Espora nuevamente, se trabajó en esta actividad y en diseñar un perfil de ataque nocturno con Exocet, mientras esperaban la llegada de más misiles.
Tambien aclaró que los pilotos al inicio del conflicto tenían 50 hs de vuelo en la aeronave incluyendo estas el adiestramiento básico en Francia. Otro detalle muy interesante fue lo de la central inercial del sistema de armas, que la de los SUE franceses tenía origen USA y la de los SUE Argentinos eran las primeras francesas que ni los propios técnicos franceses aún tenían experiencia sobre la misma y que la comunicación con el misil era distinta.
Slds
Tambien aclaró que los pilotos al inicio del conflicto tenían 50 hs de vuelo en la aeronave incluyendo estas el adiestramiento básico en Francia. Otro detalle muy interesante fue lo de la central inercial del sistema de armas, que la de los SUE franceses tenía origen USA y la de los SUE Argentinos eran las primeras francesas que ni los propios técnicos franceses aún tenían experiencia sobre la misma y que la comunicación con el misil era distinta.
Slds
S
SnAkE_OnE
y la curiosidad de la Aeronavale y de Aerospatiale sobre los parametros de lanzamiento que llevan a hacer los daños que ya conocemos todos.
S
SnAkE_OnE
No se puede adjuntar archivos de mails, vas a tener que subirlo a otro lado y de ahi poner el link.
El sufrimiento y suicidios de veteranos de Malvinas
En el Reino Unido conmemora el 25 aniversario de la Guerra de las Malvinas esta semana, se afirma que más miembros de las fuerzas armadas han cometido suicidio como resultado de sus experiencias que murió en la propia lucha.
Citando a los veteranos organización, - la Asociación de la Medalla del Atlántico Sur (SAMA) - una revista afirma que al menos 300 de las Malvinas 'veteranos y tal vez muchos más se han suicidado en Gran Bretaña, en comparación con 255 hombres de la Task Force muertos en la guerra. Se estima que 460 veteranos argentinos también han suicidado. El artículo, titulado "Una tierras no aptas para los héroes" AA ¢ € "en el periódico Sunday Times - enumera una serie de tragedias personales en las que los militares se han suicidado tomando pastillas, apuñalar a sí mismos, o arrojándose desde edificios o de los aviones. Otros han recurrido a la toma de drogas y el crimen. Atormentado por experiencesIt batalla terrible dice que muchos de los hombres que sufren el trastorno de estrés postraumático (TEPT) y sin recibir tratamiento suficiente. Anteriormente, los militares han sido tratados en hospitales militares dedicados, pero casi todos se han cerrado hacia abajo y se fusionó con el Servicio Nacional de Salud. El artículo cita a varias cuentas personales de muertes horribles en el campo de batalla, especialmente en el combate cuerpo a cuerpo en Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), donde los soldados británicos dicen que son perseguidos por los recuerdos y flashbacks. Un paracaidista que ganó la Medalla Militar por su valentía es citado diciendo: "Yo veo el miedo en los rostros de los argentinos que maté. Ellos estaban tratando de matarnos pero eran fuerzas de élite en una batalla con los reclutas de 18 y 19. Ellos no tienen una oportunidad. "Algunos de los que han regresado a las Malvinas para las visitas, dicen que financian útil para caminar los campos de batalla y darse cuenta de la enormidad de lo que pasó. Un soldado dijo que había sido ayudado por la toma de contacto en Internet con un conscripto argentino llamado Alejandro Videla para quien recaudó dinero para invitarlo a su casa en Inglaterra. Cuando se discutió Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), se dieron cuenta de que habían estado luchando contra uno frente al otro y vieron algunas de las muertes terribles. Llamado al tratamiento y los fondos El artículo cita el general Julian Thompson, comandante de la tierra con más éxito de Gran Bretaña en la guerra, como acusando a ministros del gobierno de la ignorancia en el cierre de los hospitales militares. "Esta ignorancia", el general Thompson dice, "se extiende a los veteranos que sufren de trastorno de estrés postraumático. Ellos lucharon por nosotros y se ignoran o se envían a los hospitales del Servicio Nacional de Salud entre las personas que no comprenden lo que han vivido o lo que sufren. "El artículo dice que la impactante verdad es que el TEPT no es sólo una posible sentencia de muerte para cientos de ex -militares, sino también una plaga en sus familias. El artículo dice que muchos hombres abandonan las fuerzas se sienten alienados, desconcertada, abandonados y suicida. Su única esperanza es la única caridad del Reino Unido el cuidado de los militares psicológicamente heridos y las mujeres y sus familias, llamadas Combat Stress. La organización dice que necesita desesperadamente más fondos ha estado discutiendo durante años con el Gobierno, que quiere que haga más, pero, a su presidente ejecutivo, Commodore Toby Elliott, dice:. ". ¿Quién va a pagar" Brave isleños Uno de los miembros de la Guardia Galesa, Simon Weston, graves quemaduras cuando aviones argentinos bombardearon el buque de asalto "Sir Galahad" ha aparecido en varios artículos y programas de radio y televisión le preguntó, en vista de lo sucedido a él ya sus compañeros que murieron:. "¿Fue que valga la pena? ", me contestó que él pensaba que era, de lo contrario, después al de su sufrimiento y la pérdida de muchos amigos, se volvería loco. Otros programas de televisión esta semana se centrará en el ataque bombardero Vulcan en el aeropuerto de Stanley y en el papel de valiente isleños para ayudar al grupo de trabajo por el transporte de armas para el frente en sus tractores y traer de vuelta heridos. Uno de sus dirigentes, Sra. Trudi McPhee, quien fue elogiado por el Grupo de Comandante en Jefe por su valentía, se representa en una doble página en una revista, con su perro, y citó como diciendo: Me sentía furioso porque estos bichos llegaron e invadieron mi huerto de zanahorias! " Harold Briley, Londres.
Suffering and Suicides of Malvinas Veterans
As the United Kingdom commemorates the 25th anniversary of the Malvinas War this week, it is claimed that more members of the armed forces have committed suicide as a result of their experiences than died in the fighting itself.
Quoting the veterans' organisation, --the South Atlantic Medal Association (SAMA)--a magazine claims that at least 300 of the Malvinas' veterans and perhaps many more have committed suicide in Britain, compared with 255 men of the Task Force killed in the war. It is estimated that 460 Argentine veterans have also committed suicide. The article, entitled "A Land Unfit for Heroes" â€" in the Sunday Times newspaper -- lists a series of personal tragedies in which servicemen have killed themselves by taking pills, stabbing themselves, or throwing themselves off buildings or from aircraft. Others have turned to drug-taking and crime. Haunted by horrific battlefield experiencesIt says many of the men suffer post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) without getting sufficient treatment. Previously the servicemen have been treated in dedicated military hospitals, but nearly all have been closed down and merged with the National Health Service. The article quotes several personal accounts of horrific deaths on the battlefield, especially in the close combat at Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), where British soldiers say they are haunted by memories and flashbacks. One paratrooper who won the Military Medal for bravery is quoted as saying: "I see the fear in the faces of the Argentines I killed. They were trying to kill us but we were elite forces in a battle with conscripts of 18 and 19. They did not have a chance". Some who have returned to the Malvinas on visits, say they fund it helpful to walk the battlefields and realise the enormity of what happened. One soldier said he had been helped by making contact on the internet with an Argentine conscript named Alejandro Videla for whom he raised money to invite him to his home in England. When they discussed Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), they realised they had been fighting opposite each other and saw some of the same dreadful deaths. Plea for treatment and funds The article quotes Major General Julian Thompson, Britain's most successful land commander in the War, as accusing Government ministers of ignorance in closing military hospitals. "This ignorance", General Thompson says, "extends to veterans suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. They fought for us and are ignored or sent to National Health Service hospitals among people who do not comprehend what they experienced or what they suffer". The article says that the shocking truth is that PTSD is not just a potential death sentence for hundreds of ex-servicemen but also a blight on their families. The article says many men leaving the forces feel alienated, bewildered, abandoned and suicidal. Their only hope is the sole UK charity looking after psychologically injured servicemen and women and their families, called Combat Stress. The charity says it desperately needs more funding. It has been arguing for years with the Government, which wants it to do more. But, its chief executive, Commodore Toby Elliott, says: "Who will pay?" Brave Malvinas Islanders One of the Welsh Guardsmen, Simon Weston, severely burned when Argentine aircraft bombed the assault ship "Sir Galahad" has been featured in several articles and radio and television programmes. He was asked, in view of what happened to him and his comrades who died: "Was it all worth it?", he replied that he thought it was, otherwise, after al his suffering and the loss of so many friends, he would go mad. Other television programmes this week will focus on the Vulcan bomber raid on Stanley airport and on the part played by brave Malvinas Islanders in helping the task force by transporting weapons to the front line on their farm tractors and bringing back wounded. One of their leaders, Mrs Trudi McPhee, who was commended by the Task Force Commander-in-Chief for her bravery, is pictured on a double page spread in one magazine, with her dog, and quoted as saying: I just felt furious that these buggers had come and invaded my carrot patch!" Harold Briley, London.
Fuente: http://en.mercopress.com/2007/06/11/suffering-and-suicides-of-Malvinas-veterans
En el Reino Unido conmemora el 25 aniversario de la Guerra de las Malvinas esta semana, se afirma que más miembros de las fuerzas armadas han cometido suicidio como resultado de sus experiencias que murió en la propia lucha.
Citando a los veteranos organización, - la Asociación de la Medalla del Atlántico Sur (SAMA) - una revista afirma que al menos 300 de las Malvinas 'veteranos y tal vez muchos más se han suicidado en Gran Bretaña, en comparación con 255 hombres de la Task Force muertos en la guerra. Se estima que 460 veteranos argentinos también han suicidado. El artículo, titulado "Una tierras no aptas para los héroes" AA ¢ € "en el periódico Sunday Times - enumera una serie de tragedias personales en las que los militares se han suicidado tomando pastillas, apuñalar a sí mismos, o arrojándose desde edificios o de los aviones. Otros han recurrido a la toma de drogas y el crimen. Atormentado por experiencesIt batalla terrible dice que muchos de los hombres que sufren el trastorno de estrés postraumático (TEPT) y sin recibir tratamiento suficiente. Anteriormente, los militares han sido tratados en hospitales militares dedicados, pero casi todos se han cerrado hacia abajo y se fusionó con el Servicio Nacional de Salud. El artículo cita a varias cuentas personales de muertes horribles en el campo de batalla, especialmente en el combate cuerpo a cuerpo en Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), donde los soldados británicos dicen que son perseguidos por los recuerdos y flashbacks. Un paracaidista que ganó la Medalla Militar por su valentía es citado diciendo: "Yo veo el miedo en los rostros de los argentinos que maté. Ellos estaban tratando de matarnos pero eran fuerzas de élite en una batalla con los reclutas de 18 y 19. Ellos no tienen una oportunidad. "Algunos de los que han regresado a las Malvinas para las visitas, dicen que financian útil para caminar los campos de batalla y darse cuenta de la enormidad de lo que pasó. Un soldado dijo que había sido ayudado por la toma de contacto en Internet con un conscripto argentino llamado Alejandro Videla para quien recaudó dinero para invitarlo a su casa en Inglaterra. Cuando se discutió Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), se dieron cuenta de que habían estado luchando contra uno frente al otro y vieron algunas de las muertes terribles. Llamado al tratamiento y los fondos El artículo cita el general Julian Thompson, comandante de la tierra con más éxito de Gran Bretaña en la guerra, como acusando a ministros del gobierno de la ignorancia en el cierre de los hospitales militares. "Esta ignorancia", el general Thompson dice, "se extiende a los veteranos que sufren de trastorno de estrés postraumático. Ellos lucharon por nosotros y se ignoran o se envían a los hospitales del Servicio Nacional de Salud entre las personas que no comprenden lo que han vivido o lo que sufren. "El artículo dice que la impactante verdad es que el TEPT no es sólo una posible sentencia de muerte para cientos de ex -militares, sino también una plaga en sus familias. El artículo dice que muchos hombres abandonan las fuerzas se sienten alienados, desconcertada, abandonados y suicida. Su única esperanza es la única caridad del Reino Unido el cuidado de los militares psicológicamente heridos y las mujeres y sus familias, llamadas Combat Stress. La organización dice que necesita desesperadamente más fondos ha estado discutiendo durante años con el Gobierno, que quiere que haga más, pero, a su presidente ejecutivo, Commodore Toby Elliott, dice:. ". ¿Quién va a pagar" Brave isleños Uno de los miembros de la Guardia Galesa, Simon Weston, graves quemaduras cuando aviones argentinos bombardearon el buque de asalto "Sir Galahad" ha aparecido en varios artículos y programas de radio y televisión le preguntó, en vista de lo sucedido a él ya sus compañeros que murieron:. "¿Fue que valga la pena? ", me contestó que él pensaba que era, de lo contrario, después al de su sufrimiento y la pérdida de muchos amigos, se volvería loco. Otros programas de televisión esta semana se centrará en el ataque bombardero Vulcan en el aeropuerto de Stanley y en el papel de valiente isleños para ayudar al grupo de trabajo por el transporte de armas para el frente en sus tractores y traer de vuelta heridos. Uno de sus dirigentes, Sra. Trudi McPhee, quien fue elogiado por el Grupo de Comandante en Jefe por su valentía, se representa en una doble página en una revista, con su perro, y citó como diciendo: Me sentía furioso porque estos bichos llegaron e invadieron mi huerto de zanahorias! " Harold Briley, Londres.
Suffering and Suicides of Malvinas Veterans
As the United Kingdom commemorates the 25th anniversary of the Malvinas War this week, it is claimed that more members of the armed forces have committed suicide as a result of their experiences than died in the fighting itself.
Quoting the veterans' organisation, --the South Atlantic Medal Association (SAMA)--a magazine claims that at least 300 of the Malvinas' veterans and perhaps many more have committed suicide in Britain, compared with 255 men of the Task Force killed in the war. It is estimated that 460 Argentine veterans have also committed suicide. The article, entitled "A Land Unfit for Heroes" â€" in the Sunday Times newspaper -- lists a series of personal tragedies in which servicemen have killed themselves by taking pills, stabbing themselves, or throwing themselves off buildings or from aircraft. Others have turned to drug-taking and crime. Haunted by horrific battlefield experiencesIt says many of the men suffer post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) without getting sufficient treatment. Previously the servicemen have been treated in dedicated military hospitals, but nearly all have been closed down and merged with the National Health Service. The article quotes several personal accounts of horrific deaths on the battlefield, especially in the close combat at Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), where British soldiers say they are haunted by memories and flashbacks. One paratrooper who won the Military Medal for bravery is quoted as saying: "I see the fear in the faces of the Argentines I killed. They were trying to kill us but we were elite forces in a battle with conscripts of 18 and 19. They did not have a chance". Some who have returned to the Malvinas on visits, say they fund it helpful to walk the battlefields and realise the enormity of what happened. One soldier said he had been helped by making contact on the internet with an Argentine conscript named Alejandro Videla for whom he raised money to invite him to his home in England. When they discussed Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), they realised they had been fighting opposite each other and saw some of the same dreadful deaths. Plea for treatment and funds The article quotes Major General Julian Thompson, Britain's most successful land commander in the War, as accusing Government ministers of ignorance in closing military hospitals. "This ignorance", General Thompson says, "extends to veterans suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. They fought for us and are ignored or sent to National Health Service hospitals among people who do not comprehend what they experienced or what they suffer". The article says that the shocking truth is that PTSD is not just a potential death sentence for hundreds of ex-servicemen but also a blight on their families. The article says many men leaving the forces feel alienated, bewildered, abandoned and suicidal. Their only hope is the sole UK charity looking after psychologically injured servicemen and women and their families, called Combat Stress. The charity says it desperately needs more funding. It has been arguing for years with the Government, which wants it to do more. But, its chief executive, Commodore Toby Elliott, says: "Who will pay?" Brave Malvinas Islanders One of the Welsh Guardsmen, Simon Weston, severely burned when Argentine aircraft bombed the assault ship "Sir Galahad" has been featured in several articles and radio and television programmes. He was asked, in view of what happened to him and his comrades who died: "Was it all worth it?", he replied that he thought it was, otherwise, after al his suffering and the loss of so many friends, he would go mad. Other television programmes this week will focus on the Vulcan bomber raid on Stanley airport and on the part played by brave Malvinas Islanders in helping the task force by transporting weapons to the front line on their farm tractors and bringing back wounded. One of their leaders, Mrs Trudi McPhee, who was commended by the Task Force Commander-in-Chief for her bravery, is pictured on a double page spread in one magazine, with her dog, and quoted as saying: I just felt furious that these buggers had come and invaded my carrot patch!" Harold Briley, London.
Fuente: http://en.mercopress.com/2007/06/11/suffering-and-suicides-of-Malvinas-veterans
Muy buenas noches Señores Foristas y Visitantes
Tengo un amigo que vive en UK y hoy me envió via email,una nota del retiro de tropas de AFGHANISTAN y un reportaje al General Rupert JONES,Cte de las tropas de UK en esa region.
Rupert JONES es hijo del Teniente Coronel Herbert "H" JONES.
El articulo salió hoy en el SUNDAY TIMES.
Lo remarcado en negrita corresponde a mi Amigo,yo solo se los pongo a su consideración.
NOTA:SOLO MODIFIQUÉ LA PALABRA MALVINAS POR AQUELLA QUE YO NO ACEPTO....desde 1833...y desde el 14 de junio de 1982...
In the footsteps of a hero
Por Christina Lamb
NOBODY is allowed to use the w-word at Camp Bastion — officially it is “redeployment” not “withdrawal” — but at the main British operating base in Afghanistan, the signs of departure are everywhere.
Shipping containers are stacked sky-high and everything from air-conditioners to tents has been numbered and labelled “British asset”.
So it was a surprise to jump off the Chinook helicopter at command headquarters in Lashkar Gah last week and see soldiers still adding rows of Hescos, the gravel-filled bags that have become ubiquitous fortifications in war zones.
Brigadier Rupert Jones, the commander of British forces in Afghanistan, may appear a candidate for the next James Bond with his straw-blond hair, piercing blue eyes and frequent use of the word “absolutely”, but he is taking no chances.
“You keep enhancing the protection of a base right up to the moment you start tearing it down,” he says. “We may be filling a sandbag one day and the next day you’re emptying it back out.”
Part of David Cameron’s day-long visit to Afghanistan yesterday included a tour of Helmand in blistering 46C heat and a meeting with Jones in his command HQ to discuss plans to bring all British forces home by the end of next year.
In the control room the security maps on the wall showing operations in central Helmand now include one in Dari, one of Afghanistan’s two official languages.
As of last week Afghan forces now command all operations across the country. Jones is upbeat about their ability to keep stability in Helmand even though, only two hours before our meeting, Taliban forces had mounted an attack on the presidential palace in Kabul, getting inside the heavily guarded compound using fake IDs.
It is six years since British forces were first sent to the southern Afghan province for what was described by ministers as a “reconstruction project” where they hoped “not a single shot” would be fired.
That turned into a fully fledged war that has taken 444 lives. Cameron said yesterday the names of the fallen would be written on a memorial wall in the national arboretum in Staffordshire — paid for out of bank fines from the Libor scandal.
Jones took command in April for six months. Unlike his predecessors, whose job was to extend British influence across a province permeated by the Taliban, he has the task of reducing it. Over the past year the number of British bases has fallen from 137 to 13. By the end of this year there will be four or five. Troop numbers will drop from 7,900 to 5,200 — almost half as many as at the peak.
British casualties have declined sharply this year but, as Jones points out, while his forces pull back they become more vulnerable.
“The more we fall back to fewer and fewer bases each one becomes a honeypot which attracts the insurgent,” he says. “We’re not on the ground so much so the insurgent will inevitably come to us.
“This means we must be much more active in the protection of the bases we still have, and our engineers are not resting at any stage.”
There have been six British deaths in Helmand this year — three when a 23-ton Mastiff armoured vehicle was blown up by a massive roadside bomb at the end of April. How this happened is under investigation: the American-made Mastiff is supposed to be the safest in the British army.
When Jones says, “every fatality is a tragedy particularly to the families concerned”, it is something he knows better than most. He was 13 when his father, Lieutenant-Colonel “H” Jones, was killed in the Malvinas while commanding 2 Battalion, the Parachute Regiment.
“H” came under enemy fire making a one-man charge against Argentine troops in the Battle of Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), a feat of bravery for which he was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.
His son is 44, two years older than “H” was when he died, but still finds it hard to talk about it.
“You’re inevitably devastated,” he says. “I’m 30-odd years on and the emotions are still raw. You go through all sorts of emotions as you come to terms with your loss and I have every sympathy when families of the fallen out here go through the same range from sadness to pride to anger.”
Why did he join the army? “This profession is a way of life and gets under your skin,” he says. “I’m not the only son of someone who died in the Malvinas who has followed his father into the army.”
Jones believes his own experience helps him to empathise with those who have lost loved ones in Helmand. “Only they can make the judgment ‘was it worth it?’ and that’s an issue I understand better than most,” he says.
Yet, he admits, there is a difference: “I was very lucky in that my father died in a fairly clear-cut war about British national sovereignty.
“So for me, was it worth it? Yes. Would I love to have kept my father? Of course I would.”
What would he say to the parent, wife, son or daughter of the soldier killed in Helmand, who wonders whether dying in a dusty field 4,000 miles away from home achieved anything?
Was it worth the hundreds killed and maimed, not to mention an estimated £40bn of taxpayers’ money?
“What I absolutely can say is those families should take very great pride that their loved one died doing something very important,” he says.
“It’s easy to forget why we came here in the first place. It was to reduce the threat to the UK and other nations at reach. Has that been successful? My sense as a British citizen is Britain is more secure than it was and I hope these families will take comfort in that.”
I point out that many people in Britain believe we are leaving because we could not defeat the Taliban. As for the security threat, that has surely become more complicated, and shifted to far more deadly Pakistan, which has numerous militant groups and more than 200 nuclear warheads as well as a sizeable population in Britain.
“These campaigns are difficult for the public to really visualise because they are not about victory or defeat, in the way the Second World War or the Malvinas were,” Jones replies.
“There are no victors in these campaigns any more than there were in Northern Ireland. They’re long, drawn-out struggles where we are trying to achieve objectives but there’ll be no victory parade at the end saying ‘didn’t we do well’.”
Whatever the political objectives, one of Jones’s main concerns is that the British army not be seen as retreating in disgrace as appeared the case when it left Basra in southern Iraq in 2009.
“The British army needs to make sure it comes out of Afghanistan with its reputation intact,” he says.
He will not be drawn on the view of many senior British military that it was a mistake to go into Helmand in the first place — a mistake some feel was compounded by sending soldiers into remote platoon houses where they were vulnerable.
Instead Jones argues the security situation is a “stark” improvement on the last time he was in Afghanistan in 2009.
The Taliban have not taken over a single district vacated by the British, he says. The reason he believes is they cannot provide services to the people.
He is particularly keen to talk about the Nad-e-Ali district of Helmand, which in 2009 was a Taliban hotbed. “If you go to Nad-e-Ali today the district governor doesn’t talk about security, that’s yesterday’s news. He talks about agriculture, economy, flooding. I wonder whether the Taliban even aspire to take a district centre like Nad-e-Ali because what would they do with it? It’s a bit like a naughty labrador that pinches a chicken, he gets the chicken in his mouth and looks a bit sheepish as he doesn’t know what to do with it.”
The improvement in security is mostly credited to the 2010 surge by US marines to clear out the Taliban, but also to work by British civilians in the provincial reconstruction team.
“Helmand has been totally transformed,” said Catriona Laing, who has headed the team since March last year. “There was nothing here. Now 80% have access to health and there are 130,292 kids in school of which 29,163 are girls.”
Its biggest achievement has been to create responsible local government, hitherto unheard of in Afghanistan. Helmand recently held elections for district councils in seven of nine districts, the only province to do so. The team’s quarterly survey shows support for the Taliban has dropped from 22% to 5% in the past 18 months.
Yet away from the base, locals I spoke to seemed less convinced the Islamic fundamentalists who ran the country until 2001 are on their uppers. Recently 200 Taliban fighters mounted an attack on Sangin and took four checkpoints — which have subsequently been retaken.
“We can’t say it’s as bad as four or five years ago, but the question is if it’s as good as before the British came in,” says Habiba Sadat, a female MP from Helmand. “Even with all the foreign troops still there, two districts in the north, Kajaki and Musa Qala, are under Taliban control.”
Mohammad Khan Kharoti, who runs a school in Shin Kalay, 14 miles west of Nad-e-Ali, says the Taliban still dominate. He set up his school in 2004 and it had 1,200 pupils — 300 of them girls. One night in October 2008 it was destroyed by bulldozers.
Yet when Kharoti rebuilt it, it was to the Taliban that he went for security. “I met the chairman of the Taliban education commission in a tent near the border with Pakistan and they gave me written permission,” he says.
“He said: ‘Whoever destroyed your school we were very disappointed with him. We’re fighting 42 nations and without computers and English we can’t succeed.’ ”
Kharoti said the only request from the Taliban was that there be separate entrances and classrooms for the girls and boys.
Some have speculated the Taliban will wait for all the Nato forces to leave by the end of next year and then move into the south.
In the meantime, with the summer fighting season under way, Jones expects attacks. But he believes the Afghan security forces alongside whom he works can handle them. He likens the situation to a child on a bicycle where the stabilisers have been removed and the father is standing behind.
“The [Afghan army] like the fact we’re just over their shoulder so if they had to ask they could,” he says. “They also like things we provide such as air support, information and medical evacuation. But they are more and more confident. The police in central Helmand have mounted 150 operations in the last three months and we have been involved in just three.”
This does not mean British troops have stopped going out on operations. “The narrative that was painted in the spring that our troops were sitting in their bases and went to the gym was wholly inaccurate and did a disservice to the continuing risks that our soldiers face,” he says.
“Central Helmand is a dangerous place and to protect our camps we have to keep targeting the insurgent, finding his explosives and weapons.”
Jones nevertheless feels the military have done their part and it is now up to the politicians to do theirs by moving ahead with a peace process — something Cameron discussed with Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, at a one-to-one lunch at his palace yesterday.
“We, the UK, have expended an awful lot of effort and sacrifice into Helmand and we would all wish to see our legacy enduring,” says Jones. “How you best support that is for our politicians to determine.”
Tengo un amigo que vive en UK y hoy me envió via email,una nota del retiro de tropas de AFGHANISTAN y un reportaje al General Rupert JONES,Cte de las tropas de UK en esa region.
Rupert JONES es hijo del Teniente Coronel Herbert "H" JONES.
El articulo salió hoy en el SUNDAY TIMES.
Lo remarcado en negrita corresponde a mi Amigo,yo solo se los pongo a su consideración.
NOTA:SOLO MODIFIQUÉ LA PALABRA MALVINAS POR AQUELLA QUE YO NO ACEPTO....desde 1833...y desde el 14 de junio de 1982...
In the footsteps of a hero
Por Christina Lamb
NOBODY is allowed to use the w-word at Camp Bastion — officially it is “redeployment” not “withdrawal” — but at the main British operating base in Afghanistan, the signs of departure are everywhere.
Shipping containers are stacked sky-high and everything from air-conditioners to tents has been numbered and labelled “British asset”.
So it was a surprise to jump off the Chinook helicopter at command headquarters in Lashkar Gah last week and see soldiers still adding rows of Hescos, the gravel-filled bags that have become ubiquitous fortifications in war zones.
Brigadier Rupert Jones, the commander of British forces in Afghanistan, may appear a candidate for the next James Bond with his straw-blond hair, piercing blue eyes and frequent use of the word “absolutely”, but he is taking no chances.
“You keep enhancing the protection of a base right up to the moment you start tearing it down,” he says. “We may be filling a sandbag one day and the next day you’re emptying it back out.”
Part of David Cameron’s day-long visit to Afghanistan yesterday included a tour of Helmand in blistering 46C heat and a meeting with Jones in his command HQ to discuss plans to bring all British forces home by the end of next year.
In the control room the security maps on the wall showing operations in central Helmand now include one in Dari, one of Afghanistan’s two official languages.
As of last week Afghan forces now command all operations across the country. Jones is upbeat about their ability to keep stability in Helmand even though, only two hours before our meeting, Taliban forces had mounted an attack on the presidential palace in Kabul, getting inside the heavily guarded compound using fake IDs.
It is six years since British forces were first sent to the southern Afghan province for what was described by ministers as a “reconstruction project” where they hoped “not a single shot” would be fired.
That turned into a fully fledged war that has taken 444 lives. Cameron said yesterday the names of the fallen would be written on a memorial wall in the national arboretum in Staffordshire — paid for out of bank fines from the Libor scandal.
Jones took command in April for six months. Unlike his predecessors, whose job was to extend British influence across a province permeated by the Taliban, he has the task of reducing it. Over the past year the number of British bases has fallen from 137 to 13. By the end of this year there will be four or five. Troop numbers will drop from 7,900 to 5,200 — almost half as many as at the peak.
British casualties have declined sharply this year but, as Jones points out, while his forces pull back they become more vulnerable.
“The more we fall back to fewer and fewer bases each one becomes a honeypot which attracts the insurgent,” he says. “We’re not on the ground so much so the insurgent will inevitably come to us.
“This means we must be much more active in the protection of the bases we still have, and our engineers are not resting at any stage.”
There have been six British deaths in Helmand this year — three when a 23-ton Mastiff armoured vehicle was blown up by a massive roadside bomb at the end of April. How this happened is under investigation: the American-made Mastiff is supposed to be the safest in the British army.
When Jones says, “every fatality is a tragedy particularly to the families concerned”, it is something he knows better than most. He was 13 when his father, Lieutenant-Colonel “H” Jones, was killed in the Malvinas while commanding 2 Battalion, the Parachute Regiment.
“H” came under enemy fire making a one-man charge against Argentine troops in the Battle of Pradera del Ganso (Goose Green), a feat of bravery for which he was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.
His son is 44, two years older than “H” was when he died, but still finds it hard to talk about it.
“You’re inevitably devastated,” he says. “I’m 30-odd years on and the emotions are still raw. You go through all sorts of emotions as you come to terms with your loss and I have every sympathy when families of the fallen out here go through the same range from sadness to pride to anger.”
Why did he join the army? “This profession is a way of life and gets under your skin,” he says. “I’m not the only son of someone who died in the Malvinas who has followed his father into the army.”
Jones believes his own experience helps him to empathise with those who have lost loved ones in Helmand. “Only they can make the judgment ‘was it worth it?’ and that’s an issue I understand better than most,” he says.
Yet, he admits, there is a difference: “I was very lucky in that my father died in a fairly clear-cut war about British national sovereignty.
“So for me, was it worth it? Yes. Would I love to have kept my father? Of course I would.”
What would he say to the parent, wife, son or daughter of the soldier killed in Helmand, who wonders whether dying in a dusty field 4,000 miles away from home achieved anything?
Was it worth the hundreds killed and maimed, not to mention an estimated £40bn of taxpayers’ money?
“What I absolutely can say is those families should take very great pride that their loved one died doing something very important,” he says.
“It’s easy to forget why we came here in the first place. It was to reduce the threat to the UK and other nations at reach. Has that been successful? My sense as a British citizen is Britain is more secure than it was and I hope these families will take comfort in that.”
I point out that many people in Britain believe we are leaving because we could not defeat the Taliban. As for the security threat, that has surely become more complicated, and shifted to far more deadly Pakistan, which has numerous militant groups and more than 200 nuclear warheads as well as a sizeable population in Britain.
“These campaigns are difficult for the public to really visualise because they are not about victory or defeat, in the way the Second World War or the Malvinas were,” Jones replies.
“There are no victors in these campaigns any more than there were in Northern Ireland. They’re long, drawn-out struggles where we are trying to achieve objectives but there’ll be no victory parade at the end saying ‘didn’t we do well’.”
Whatever the political objectives, one of Jones’s main concerns is that the British army not be seen as retreating in disgrace as appeared the case when it left Basra in southern Iraq in 2009.
“The British army needs to make sure it comes out of Afghanistan with its reputation intact,” he says.
He will not be drawn on the view of many senior British military that it was a mistake to go into Helmand in the first place — a mistake some feel was compounded by sending soldiers into remote platoon houses where they were vulnerable.
Instead Jones argues the security situation is a “stark” improvement on the last time he was in Afghanistan in 2009.
The Taliban have not taken over a single district vacated by the British, he says. The reason he believes is they cannot provide services to the people.
He is particularly keen to talk about the Nad-e-Ali district of Helmand, which in 2009 was a Taliban hotbed. “If you go to Nad-e-Ali today the district governor doesn’t talk about security, that’s yesterday’s news. He talks about agriculture, economy, flooding. I wonder whether the Taliban even aspire to take a district centre like Nad-e-Ali because what would they do with it? It’s a bit like a naughty labrador that pinches a chicken, he gets the chicken in his mouth and looks a bit sheepish as he doesn’t know what to do with it.”
The improvement in security is mostly credited to the 2010 surge by US marines to clear out the Taliban, but also to work by British civilians in the provincial reconstruction team.
“Helmand has been totally transformed,” said Catriona Laing, who has headed the team since March last year. “There was nothing here. Now 80% have access to health and there are 130,292 kids in school of which 29,163 are girls.”
Its biggest achievement has been to create responsible local government, hitherto unheard of in Afghanistan. Helmand recently held elections for district councils in seven of nine districts, the only province to do so. The team’s quarterly survey shows support for the Taliban has dropped from 22% to 5% in the past 18 months.
Yet away from the base, locals I spoke to seemed less convinced the Islamic fundamentalists who ran the country until 2001 are on their uppers. Recently 200 Taliban fighters mounted an attack on Sangin and took four checkpoints — which have subsequently been retaken.
“We can’t say it’s as bad as four or five years ago, but the question is if it’s as good as before the British came in,” says Habiba Sadat, a female MP from Helmand. “Even with all the foreign troops still there, two districts in the north, Kajaki and Musa Qala, are under Taliban control.”
Mohammad Khan Kharoti, who runs a school in Shin Kalay, 14 miles west of Nad-e-Ali, says the Taliban still dominate. He set up his school in 2004 and it had 1,200 pupils — 300 of them girls. One night in October 2008 it was destroyed by bulldozers.
Yet when Kharoti rebuilt it, it was to the Taliban that he went for security. “I met the chairman of the Taliban education commission in a tent near the border with Pakistan and they gave me written permission,” he says.
“He said: ‘Whoever destroyed your school we were very disappointed with him. We’re fighting 42 nations and without computers and English we can’t succeed.’ ”
Kharoti said the only request from the Taliban was that there be separate entrances and classrooms for the girls and boys.
Some have speculated the Taliban will wait for all the Nato forces to leave by the end of next year and then move into the south.
In the meantime, with the summer fighting season under way, Jones expects attacks. But he believes the Afghan security forces alongside whom he works can handle them. He likens the situation to a child on a bicycle where the stabilisers have been removed and the father is standing behind.
“The [Afghan army] like the fact we’re just over their shoulder so if they had to ask they could,” he says. “They also like things we provide such as air support, information and medical evacuation. But they are more and more confident. The police in central Helmand have mounted 150 operations in the last three months and we have been involved in just three.”
This does not mean British troops have stopped going out on operations. “The narrative that was painted in the spring that our troops were sitting in their bases and went to the gym was wholly inaccurate and did a disservice to the continuing risks that our soldiers face,” he says.
“Central Helmand is a dangerous place and to protect our camps we have to keep targeting the insurgent, finding his explosives and weapons.”
Jones nevertheless feels the military have done their part and it is now up to the politicians to do theirs by moving ahead with a peace process — something Cameron discussed with Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, at a one-to-one lunch at his palace yesterday.
“We, the UK, have expended an awful lot of effort and sacrifice into Helmand and we would all wish to see our legacy enduring,” says Jones. “How you best support that is for our politicians to determine.”
Daniel G. Gionco
Veterano Guerra de Malvinas
Aunque esto tal vez debería ir en otro hilo, me pareció mejor ponerlo aquí.
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El sitio del Apostadero tiene un buscador interno provisto por "Frefind".
Regularmente me manda un correo con el resumen de las búsquedas realizadas.
En el último informe salió que alguien usó el buscador con este texto:
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El sitio del Apostadero tiene un buscador interno provisto por "Frefind".
Regularmente me manda un correo con el resumen de las búsquedas realizadas.
En el último informe salió que alguien usó el buscador con este texto:
saber si estoy en el listado de veteranos de guerra
¿El tipo esperaría que el buscador le responda si o no?
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DSV
Colaborador
Eso mismo iba a consultar. Buena elección de varietales. Bonarda, por favor??
Misma pregunta, vino y copas.
Por ahi sale un combo?
Por la primera vez he visto un alcohol comemorando la guerra (a los veteranos, pero la guerra). Luego vi los similares comemoraciones por los britanicos (la cerveza). Es interesante... No he visto en otros paises, pero puede ser porque son series limitados...Temas similares
