Derruido
Colaborador
No es mí caso, una larga lista de mujeres lo pueden atestiguar.
Besos
PD: Sobre la experiencia, es de acuerdo a lo que uno busca.
Argentina: Noticias del Ministerio de Defensa
- Tema iniciado KAISERDOGO
- Fecha de inicio
Besos
PD: Sobre la experiencia, es de acuerdo a lo que uno busca.
Derruido
Colaborador
Tano, me acordé en parte, perdoná mi pobre memoria, pero una de las A69 recibió corchazos de lo lindo en las Georgias, porque los Bredas, no funcaban................
Besos
PD: Que una Armada deje uno de sus buques (aún no estando operativo y en espera para su reparación), en éste estado.........
Jorge II
Serpiente Negra.
Señores, se está hablando mucho sobre los mandos de la Armada y los cortocircuitos con el Ministro de Defensa. El Ministro seguramente va a descabezar la cúpula naval pero la Justicia Federal va a ir contra el Ministro de Defensa y sus funcionarios puesto por el; Siempre y cuando se haga una investigación seria e independiente que seguramente por presión familiar e internacional se tiene que hacer y no cortar el hilo por lo más delgado es decir por el capitán del submarino e incluso por los mandos navales.
S
SnAkE_OnE
Poco tiene que ver la desaparicion del ARA "San Juan" con la remocion de la cupula naval, es una cuestion oportunista, las cupulas de por si no llegaban al 2018, muchos de ellos ya se despidieron de sus subalternos.
Mucho va a pasar amparado por la exigencia de castigos o lo que fuere.. esto va a tener consecuencias muy muy serias.
Mucho va a pasar amparado por la exigencia de castigos o lo que fuere.. esto va a tener consecuencias muy muy serias.
hay que esperar....las circunstancias del accidente pueden ser infinitas....
nico22
Colaborador
El tema es si alguna vez se sabra lo que paso.
Tronador II
Colaborador
Aguad de lo único que puede ser responsable es del manejo de la información.....pero más allá de eso, por simple honor al puesto, debería presentar la renuncia ni bien este incidente haya concluido.
Derruido
Colaborador
Y extendidas............. no sea cosa que PNA termine absorviendo lo que quede del ARA. Tanto quilombo por los SUE entre el COAN y la FAA............. creo que eso ya quedó resuelto.
Pero que después de ésto se viene un tole tole, de grandes proporciones se viene. Puertas adentro como puertas afuera. Creo que ésto va a ser como el caso Carrasco que terminó con el SMO.
Probablemente después de ésto la clase política se saque la careta y se defina si quieren o no quieren fuerzas armadas. Porque seguir así, no tiene goyete, al menos que definan lo que quieren y que se acepten las consecuencias, o el esfuerzo por tener un sistema de defensa decente. No se puede jugar a la ruleta con la vida del personal, ya sea por carencia de material, carencia de conducción interna y política.
Besos
Derruido
Colaborador
Después de ésto, el ministro también tiene las puertas abiertas.
Besos
PD: Y como dijo el Pipi Sánchez ayer en su Face..............
Pipi Sanchez
Hace falta que ocurra un incidente para que los medios de comunicación hablen de los militares y la situación actual. Para colmo lo llevan al tara-do de Runza para hablar de defensa en canal 13.
Otro de los inútiles que tenemos que mantener y para colmo, es de la Fuerza. No nos falta nada más!
Antes de hablar de cada una de las Fuerzas, empiecen por “limpiar” el Ministerio de Defensa, que está lleno de ñoquis, inútiles y ex militares frustrados. Inútiles que debemos mantener todos y que en nada solucionan el problema de defensa nacional.
Derruido
Colaborador
Tano, los fierros pueden fallar, porque pueden fallar.
Pero éste hecho lo que ha desnudado, es la falencia de la conducción de la propia Armada (no sabemos de las otras fuerzas por que no han sufrido un hecho similar) y de lo que es el ministerio de defensa (pasan ministros, pero la estructura burocrática y hasta ahora más que inutil sigue intacta).
La desorganización de la propia fuerza, la falta de una cadena de mando vertical (el presidente y el ministro se enteran como nosotros por una filtración en INFOBAE). Es exáctamente igual que cuando pasó lo del Belgrano.
Uno vé como se mueven las Fuerzas Armadas que vinieron a ayudar, uno vé la organización, como se mueven.......... QUE LEJOS QUE ESTAMOS. Y no hablo por un tema de material que no se tiene.
Pero justamente lo que hoy nos falta, es justamente lo que un grupo de legos y de ignaros en la materia, hace año y medio veníamos pidiendo para la Armada.
Besos
Derruido
Colaborador
Como es posible que ex miembros de la fuerza, submarinistas. Digan con puntos y comas, lo que dicta el reglamento y protocolo en cuanto al problema en un Sub. Y acá, durante dos dias los miembros de la conducción de la fuerza, no movieron un solo dedo y en la cara nos decian, no están perdidos, porque no los estamos buscando. Esa frase va a quedar para la historia, lamentablemente.
Besos
Besos
Derruido
Colaborador
Five Questions About the Missing Argentine Submarine
A coalition of international forces is frantically searching for Argentina’s ARA San Juan submarine and its 44 crew members, who have not made contact since Nov. 15. The diesel-electric submarine was patrolling off the coast of Patagonia when it reported a fault in its electrical system, according to Argentina’s navy.
In the week since the ARA San Juan went missing, hopes have been raised and dashed by a false alarm that sounds from the submarine might have been heard by the search party as well as a debunked notion that the crew had made calls with an Iridium satellite phone after Nov. 15. A Daily Mail story Wednesday said the U.S. Navy had located the San Juan, but that story’s claim was entirely false, according to U.S. Navy Cmdr. Erik Reynolds, a public affairs officer for the Fourth Fleet.
Here are five questions that address some of what is known about the missing submarine and the search.
What was the submarine doing when it was lost?
Knowing what the submarine was doing and where it was when it lost contact is the key data point from which the search area is determined, according to Richard Bryant, former commander of the USS Miami. There has been a “lack of transparency” on the Argentine government’s part in describing what the vessel was doing, he told Foreign Policy, though he emphasized he was not suggesting “anything nefarious” was occurring.
Instead it might reflect that the government in Buenos Aires was unprepared for dealing with a lost submarine, which is relatively rare in the modern era. Argentina “has never really had to deal with anything like this before,” he said. “Maybe they weren’t really ready for this.”
Clues to the submarine’s operations may be found in the Argentina’s recent history. Last year, its coast guard sank a Chinese ship it claimed was fishing illegally in its territorial waters, BBC News reported. In 2012, Argentina captured two Chinese vessels it claimed were fishing in its exclusive economic zone, according to that report.
Who is participating in the search?
An international search effort is underway including ships from the United States, United Kingdom, Brazil, and Chile as others search for signs of the sub from the sky.
Among the ships is the United Kingdom’s HMS Protector, an ice patrol ship. The United Kingdom’s participation is particularly striking. Argentina’s relationship with the U.K. has has been strained since the 1982 Malvinas War, which pitted the two countries against each other over disputed territory in the South Atlantic. British assistance in the search for the submarine marks a significant breakthrough
“The Argentineans will not forget this,” said Riordan Roett, director of the Latin American studies program at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. British assistance “is going to increase the warmth in the relationship” between the two countries, he told FP.
What are rescuers using in the search?
The Department of Defense on Tuesday said the U.S. Navy had sent unmanned underwater vehicles, aircraft, and equipment specially designed for submarine search and rescue.
Underwater submersible devices exist that can attach to the a escape hatch of a submarine and listen for morse code tapped from the submarine on U.S. vessels to coordinate opening the hatch, Bryant said. But without that close proximity, listening for distant morse code in a deep ocean full of noise from marine life and other vessels is extremely difficult.
“It’s not like you can tap on the hull and they’ll hear it 100 miles away,” Bryant said.
Distant sounds heard by search vessels brought initial hope that the ARA San Juan might be located, but Argentina’s navy spokesman later said the noise was unlikely to be coming from the submarine.
How do rescuers know where to search?
Search parties have to conduct an exhaustive linear search akin to mowing a lawn, but there’s “the tyranny of time” and the ARA San Juan is relatively small submarine to find compared to some U.S. vessels, Bryant said.
It is still unknown whether the submarine is afloat, navigating underwater, or on the ocean floor. If the vessel has lost its propulsion capabilities, underwater currents could batter it around the seabed. And rescue teams have contended with heavy winds and large ocean waves, trying to search systematically for a relatively small submarine that might itself be changing positions under its own propulsion or at the mercy of the current.
Large waves have plagued rescue efforts and would also hinder the submarine’s ability to “snorkel” at surface level if it is still afloat, Bryant said. Weather can interfere with rescue crews’ ability to see debris, trash, or bodies, and “would make that stuff disperse” making the search difficult “even in daylight hours,” he said.
How long can the crew of the submarine survive?
The search for the submarine is a fight against time. Managing carbon dioxide levels when submerged pose another risk, and even a functioning battery can only operate for so long.
If the San Juan can stay snorkeling on the surface, it had 90 days worth of food and fuel, the spokesman for Argentina’s navy said. The sub has enough oxygen for roughly a week continuously underwater.
Contact was lost one week ago.
“The longer time goes by without any indications of the submarine,” Bryant told FP, “the harder it becomes to try to locate it.”
Like this article? Read an unlimited number of articles, plus access to our entire 47-year printed archive, the FP App, and the FP Insights Tool when you subscribe to FP Premium for 20% off!
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/22/five-questions-about-the-missing-argentine-submarine/amp/
A coalition of international forces is frantically searching for Argentina’s ARA San Juan submarine and its 44 crew members, who have not made contact since Nov. 15. The diesel-electric submarine was patrolling off the coast of Patagonia when it reported a fault in its electrical system, according to Argentina’s navy.
In the week since the ARA San Juan went missing, hopes have been raised and dashed by a false alarm that sounds from the submarine might have been heard by the search party as well as a debunked notion that the crew had made calls with an Iridium satellite phone after Nov. 15. A Daily Mail story Wednesday said the U.S. Navy had located the San Juan, but that story’s claim was entirely false, according to U.S. Navy Cmdr. Erik Reynolds, a public affairs officer for the Fourth Fleet.
Here are five questions that address some of what is known about the missing submarine and the search.
What was the submarine doing when it was lost?
Knowing what the submarine was doing and where it was when it lost contact is the key data point from which the search area is determined, according to Richard Bryant, former commander of the USS Miami. There has been a “lack of transparency” on the Argentine government’s part in describing what the vessel was doing, he told Foreign Policy, though he emphasized he was not suggesting “anything nefarious” was occurring.
Instead it might reflect that the government in Buenos Aires was unprepared for dealing with a lost submarine, which is relatively rare in the modern era. Argentina “has never really had to deal with anything like this before,” he said. “Maybe they weren’t really ready for this.”
Clues to the submarine’s operations may be found in the Argentina’s recent history. Last year, its coast guard sank a Chinese ship it claimed was fishing illegally in its territorial waters, BBC News reported. In 2012, Argentina captured two Chinese vessels it claimed were fishing in its exclusive economic zone, according to that report.
Who is participating in the search?
An international search effort is underway including ships from the United States, United Kingdom, Brazil, and Chile as others search for signs of the sub from the sky.
Among the ships is the United Kingdom’s HMS Protector, an ice patrol ship. The United Kingdom’s participation is particularly striking. Argentina’s relationship with the U.K. has has been strained since the 1982 Malvinas War, which pitted the two countries against each other over disputed territory in the South Atlantic. British assistance in the search for the submarine marks a significant breakthrough
“The Argentineans will not forget this,” said Riordan Roett, director of the Latin American studies program at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. British assistance “is going to increase the warmth in the relationship” between the two countries, he told FP.
What are rescuers using in the search?
The Department of Defense on Tuesday said the U.S. Navy had sent unmanned underwater vehicles, aircraft, and equipment specially designed for submarine search and rescue.
Underwater submersible devices exist that can attach to the a escape hatch of a submarine and listen for morse code tapped from the submarine on U.S. vessels to coordinate opening the hatch, Bryant said. But without that close proximity, listening for distant morse code in a deep ocean full of noise from marine life and other vessels is extremely difficult.
“It’s not like you can tap on the hull and they’ll hear it 100 miles away,” Bryant said.
Distant sounds heard by search vessels brought initial hope that the ARA San Juan might be located, but Argentina’s navy spokesman later said the noise was unlikely to be coming from the submarine.
How do rescuers know where to search?
Search parties have to conduct an exhaustive linear search akin to mowing a lawn, but there’s “the tyranny of time” and the ARA San Juan is relatively small submarine to find compared to some U.S. vessels, Bryant said.
It is still unknown whether the submarine is afloat, navigating underwater, or on the ocean floor. If the vessel has lost its propulsion capabilities, underwater currents could batter it around the seabed. And rescue teams have contended with heavy winds and large ocean waves, trying to search systematically for a relatively small submarine that might itself be changing positions under its own propulsion or at the mercy of the current.
Large waves have plagued rescue efforts and would also hinder the submarine’s ability to “snorkel” at surface level if it is still afloat, Bryant said. Weather can interfere with rescue crews’ ability to see debris, trash, or bodies, and “would make that stuff disperse” making the search difficult “even in daylight hours,” he said.
How long can the crew of the submarine survive?
The search for the submarine is a fight against time. Managing carbon dioxide levels when submerged pose another risk, and even a functioning battery can only operate for so long.
If the San Juan can stay snorkeling on the surface, it had 90 days worth of food and fuel, the spokesman for Argentina’s navy said. The sub has enough oxygen for roughly a week continuously underwater.
Contact was lost one week ago.
“The longer time goes by without any indications of the submarine,” Bryant told FP, “the harder it becomes to try to locate it.”
Like this article? Read an unlimited number of articles, plus access to our entire 47-year printed archive, the FP App, and the FP Insights Tool when you subscribe to FP Premium for 20% off!
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/22/five-questions-about-the-missing-argentine-submarine/amp/
Derruido
Colaborador
Buenas, hace rato que no participo del foro pero trato de estar al tanto con este tema , que como a todos me tiene bastante mal. Algo que no me cierra desde el principio es que haya estado operando solo. Entiendo que en periodos de conflicto, un sub opere solo "cazando" y que muchas veces el comando no tenga idea precisa de donde esta. De hecho el sigilo y la incertidumbre es su principal arma. Ahora, operar solo para buscar pesqueros ilegales?? Y si los encuentra q? Llama a la base para que manden un buque que llega cuanto tiempo despues? De nuevo, me llama la atencion que en epocas de "paz" un submarino navegue solo en medio del oceano.... y no como parte de una fuerza de tareas conjunta...
Tronador II
Colaborador
Estaba haciendo maniobras con toda la flota en el Mar Argentino....llego hasta Ushuaia, y luego volvió por su cuenta.
Disculpe q lo contradiga, pero por lo q he leido en el foro, el sub no estaba "volviendo" por la suya. De hecho decidió volver luego de informar del incidente, por lo q se supone q su mision en la zona no era solo "Volver"... Hasta ahora todo parece demostrar q estaba operando solo, sin apoyo de alguna unidad de superficie....
Jorge II
Serpiente Negra.
En si no se sabe nada de la misión que cumplía el submarino en su regreso a Mar del Plata, tampoco lo van a decir, generalmente los submarino independientemente de la misión que cumpla siempre operan solos salvo cuando salen en formación cosa muy difícil y son contados.
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