El-comechingón
Fanático del Asado
Y que vamos a querer meter el pecho por 12 a 24 aviones....
¿Gripen NG para la FAA?
- Tema iniciado ialfonso
- Fecha de inicio
- Estado
UK may not oppose Gripen sale to Argentina: Brazilian minister
By: FELIPE SALLES
RIO DE JANEIRO
Source: Flightglobal.com
11:34 16 Apr 2015
The UK government is unlikely to block any request by Argentina to buy Saab Gripen NG fighters, Brazilian defence minister Jacques Wagner told reporters on 15 April.
The statement at the Latin American Aviation and Defence exhibition comes nearly six months after Argentinian defence minister Agustin Rossi expressed interest in Brazilian-assembled Gripen NGs, despite a need to import key technologies such as the ejection seat and the radar from a historic rival in the UK.
So far, there has still been no official request by Argentina to import British technologies for either Gripen NGs or Embraer KC-390s, Lt Gen José Crepaldi, head of Brazilian air force acquisition programmes.
Argentina is one of the three international industrial partners in Embraer’s KC-390 tactical transport. Several KC-390 systems are supplied by British or British-controlled firms, such as BAE Systems flight control computers and active side stick controllers, Ultra Electronics electronic controls and sensors as well as Cobham’s fuel tanks, inflight refueling equipment and composite material nose radomes.
Wagner mentioned that to overcome any “obstacles” Embraer might have to substitute these blocked components by other international suppliers. Wagner did not elaborate on whether Brazil or Argentina would be required to pay for such redesign and recertification of the KC-390 or the Gripen NG.
According to Wagner, the full resolution of restrictive export policies will only be possible once the UK accepts to “discuss the issue of the Malvinas Islands sovereignty with Argentina through UN-mediated talks”.
Separately, Wagner also acknowledged that the Brazilian government recently owed Embraer around $200 million in unpaid bills for the KC-390 development, but about $40 million of that total was paid last week.
By: FELIPE SALLES
RIO DE JANEIRO
Source: Flightglobal.com
11:34 16 Apr 2015
The UK government is unlikely to block any request by Argentina to buy Saab Gripen NG fighters, Brazilian defence minister Jacques Wagner told reporters on 15 April.
The statement at the Latin American Aviation and Defence exhibition comes nearly six months after Argentinian defence minister Agustin Rossi expressed interest in Brazilian-assembled Gripen NGs, despite a need to import key technologies such as the ejection seat and the radar from a historic rival in the UK.
So far, there has still been no official request by Argentina to import British technologies for either Gripen NGs or Embraer KC-390s, Lt Gen José Crepaldi, head of Brazilian air force acquisition programmes.
Argentina is one of the three international industrial partners in Embraer’s KC-390 tactical transport. Several KC-390 systems are supplied by British or British-controlled firms, such as BAE Systems flight control computers and active side stick controllers, Ultra Electronics electronic controls and sensors as well as Cobham’s fuel tanks, inflight refueling equipment and composite material nose radomes.
Wagner mentioned that to overcome any “obstacles” Embraer might have to substitute these blocked components by other international suppliers. Wagner did not elaborate on whether Brazil or Argentina would be required to pay for such redesign and recertification of the KC-390 or the Gripen NG.
According to Wagner, the full resolution of restrictive export policies will only be possible once the UK accepts to “discuss the issue of the Malvinas Islands sovereignty with Argentina through UN-mediated talks”.
Separately, Wagner also acknowledged that the Brazilian government recently owed Embraer around $200 million in unpaid bills for the KC-390 development, but about $40 million of that total was paid last week.
Los aviones se les vendían igual, pero tenían que ser como los 222 libios a los que les pasó lo mismo, no quisieron o no les interesó hacerse cargo de los costos de una versión específica y listo, se acabó el tema.
Y ese es el tema hay que reemplazar y o modificar lo que se quiere vender, la venta se perdió que es lo que cuenta .
Que hubiesen ido a por Spartan...... ah, que tampoco se los vendían.
Es logico que la FAB se defienda, ahora se lo tendra que demostar con los papeles sobre la mesa a Anselmo Lopes, que no habla de corrupcion, por ahora solo quiere saber.
Los 900 millones de U$S no son poca cosa, y el ambiente de Brasil no es el mejor en ese aspecto. Pienso que es lo correcto que se defiendan los recursos de pais. Si esta todo correcto, el fiscal cumplio con su mision, que para eso le paga el estado.
Como viene la mano veo que desgraciadamente se bienen 4 PA-25 Puelche, con sistema de armas Saurio
Derrochón.... (tres son suficientes
)
Derruido
Colaborador
Ese es el punto, los costos extras. Y el costo extra de sostener logísticamente un avión que termina siendo único para un solo pais.
Besos
PD: Eso de aviones únicos, a la larga, pésimo negocio.
Pero tanto los libios como los venezolanos fueron con el dinero en la mano y negociaron, Argentina no ha ido a ningún sitio con el dinero en la mano y le han dicho no. Y Gadaffi acabó recibiendo ofertas de todo lo habido y por haber de Francia e Italia, de Rafales a FREMM, pasando por Tigres, blindados, artillería, misiles antiaereos, anticarro, de todo, de todo. Claro que también está el tema venezolano con los israelies, pero ese es mas delirante.
D
DELTA22
Bueno... Previsible.
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Mon Apr 27, 2015 - 6:03PM
Saab dismisses prospect of Gripen jet fighters sale to Argentina
(Refiles to change dateline to LINKOPING, Sweden, from Paris)
(Reuters) - Sweden's Saab AB on Monday ruled out facilitating the sale of Gripen fighter aircraft to Argentina as the result of a deal to build and export combat jets from Brazil.
Argentina has expressed interest in buying 24 Gripen fighter jets from its Latin American neighbour once Brazil is able to export them, early next decade.
Such a deal would face an almost certain veto from Britain, which provides some 30 percent of the Gripen's content, including the radar on its next-generation Gripen E/F.
Saab said it was not involved in any discussions involving Argentina.
"Nobody has asked us to do that and we are not considering it," a spokesman said during a defence media briefing.
Relations between Britain and Argentina remain tense since a war 33 years ago over the Malvinas Islands, known as Las Malvinas in Argentina.
Late last year, Brazilian defence officials forecast more demand for Saab Gripen aircraft, including from Argentina.
Saab has sold 60 Gripen Es to Sweden and is finalizing an order for another 36 to Brazil, which will also co-develop a two-seat version Saab calls Gripen F and Brazilian officials call Gripen NG.
Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer SA has said it hopes to devise a plan with Saab by June to export the Gripen from Brazil beginning in 2023.
Saab officials said the first Gripen export from Brazil could come as early as 2022.
The head of Saab's aeronautics division, Ulf Nilsson, said the development programme for the Gripen E was on track, but he declined to outline details of the production ramp-up.
Saab also said it was confident about plans with Boeing Co to try to sell newly designed T-X training jets to the United States. But in a series of detailed briefings, Saab officials declined to discuss anything about the aircraft design, which remains strictly under wraps.
The pair are expected to face competition from Northrop Grumman Corp, a team of Lockheed Martin Corp and Korea Aerospace Industries, and an alliance between General Dynamics Corp and Italy's Alenia Aermacchi, a unit of Finmeccanica SpA.
As with the Brazilian fighter deal, Saab is looking at potential exports if it wins the trainer competition.
"When we looked into this, of course we wanted a global market for trainers. I think it is a great market out there," deputy chief executive Lennart Sindahl said.
(Reporting by Tim Hepher; Editing by Brad Haynes and Andre Grenon)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/27/saab-brazil-argentina-idUSL1N0XO1SV20150427
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Mon Apr 27, 2015 - 6:03PM
Saab dismisses prospect of Gripen jet fighters sale to Argentina
(Refiles to change dateline to LINKOPING, Sweden, from Paris)
(Reuters) - Sweden's Saab AB on Monday ruled out facilitating the sale of Gripen fighter aircraft to Argentina as the result of a deal to build and export combat jets from Brazil.
Argentina has expressed interest in buying 24 Gripen fighter jets from its Latin American neighbour once Brazil is able to export them, early next decade.
Such a deal would face an almost certain veto from Britain, which provides some 30 percent of the Gripen's content, including the radar on its next-generation Gripen E/F.
Saab said it was not involved in any discussions involving Argentina.
"Nobody has asked us to do that and we are not considering it," a spokesman said during a defence media briefing.
Relations between Britain and Argentina remain tense since a war 33 years ago over the Malvinas Islands, known as Las Malvinas in Argentina.
Late last year, Brazilian defence officials forecast more demand for Saab Gripen aircraft, including from Argentina.
Saab has sold 60 Gripen Es to Sweden and is finalizing an order for another 36 to Brazil, which will also co-develop a two-seat version Saab calls Gripen F and Brazilian officials call Gripen NG.
Brazilian aircraft maker Embraer SA has said it hopes to devise a plan with Saab by June to export the Gripen from Brazil beginning in 2023.
Saab officials said the first Gripen export from Brazil could come as early as 2022.
The head of Saab's aeronautics division, Ulf Nilsson, said the development programme for the Gripen E was on track, but he declined to outline details of the production ramp-up.
Saab also said it was confident about plans with Boeing Co to try to sell newly designed T-X training jets to the United States. But in a series of detailed briefings, Saab officials declined to discuss anything about the aircraft design, which remains strictly under wraps.
The pair are expected to face competition from Northrop Grumman Corp, a team of Lockheed Martin Corp and Korea Aerospace Industries, and an alliance between General Dynamics Corp and Italy's Alenia Aermacchi, a unit of Finmeccanica SpA.
As with the Brazilian fighter deal, Saab is looking at potential exports if it wins the trainer competition.
"When we looked into this, of course we wanted a global market for trainers. I think it is a great market out there," deputy chief executive Lennart Sindahl said.
(Reporting by Tim Hepher; Editing by Brad Haynes and Andre Grenon)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/27/saab-brazil-argentina-idUSL1N0XO1SV20150427
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Última edición por un moderador:
creo recordar que si hubo veto de componentes, se planteó una versión especiffica pero el precio de la factura se triplicaba. Logicamente la familia c235/295 es muy competitiva a precio estandar pero si lo triplicas... Al gripen podría pasarle algo parecido.
Yo creo que la venta a Argentina nunca ha estado sobre la mesa, más allá de foros. El gripen es solución para Brasil y puede que para Ecuador o algún otro país de sudamérica. Las noticias sobre la venta a Argentina responden más a deseos de algunos Argentinos que a un análisis serio del tema. Luego el mundo da vueltas y todo es posible, pero que sea posible no lo convierte en probable. El avión es medio Brasileño, pero los componentes siguen teniendo un origen y el avión está diseñado pensando en esos componentes, sustitución de elementos clave como los que aporta UK suponen un incremento notable de la factura. eso suponiendo que sean posibles.
FerTrucco
Colaborador
Si no leo mal, la nota es bastante aséptica: los suecos dicen que "por ahora no están metidos en el tema". O sea, todo pareciera indicar que la relación "Argentina - Gripen" hasta ahora no fue más allá de un documento de buena voluntad y sarasa. El día que la Argentina demuestre verdadero y firme interés en comprar, habrá que ver con qué respuesta nos encontramos.
S
SnAkE_OnE
El ha tenido otra palanca..la de color crudo, nosotros no tenemos ese nivel de influencia.[DOUBLEPOST=1430319965,1430319738][/DOUBLEPOST]
Exacto, solo con el MinDef brasileño y las gestiones de oficio de Embraer, pero no un hecho formal.
viendo como está ahora libia, mejor que no te ofrezcan rafales...
Lo segundo es obvio, se confirma gripen a Brasil y son todo buenas palabras, claro que Brasil no pondrá problemas, claro que Saab ni embraer los pondrán. El problema es pasar de "me gusta el gripen" a "vamos a traer el gripen", en el primer caso todo está bien para el segundo hay bastantes condicionantes, el primero poner los 100-150 millones de USD por avión para operarlo y equiparlo, el segundo que a ciertos gobiernos extranjeros pueda no interesarles que tengas esa capacidad.
Iconoclasta
Colaborador
Igual que los de SAAB se hagan los desentendidos me parece un tanto ridiculo.
A quién le ganaron?
Pésima política de mkt
A quién le ganaron?
Pésima política de mkt
Yo no veo desentendido, a mi me parece respuesta a una interpelación directa. Les preguntan por la posible venta de gripen a Argentina y te dicen la única verdad, nadie ha hablado con Saab de ello y obviamente ellos no se lo plantean. Entiendo que si Argentina tuviese un interés real, a Saab le llegaría algo, bien directamente desde Argentina bien desde sus partners Brasileiros. ¿Que sentido tiene para Saab hablar de una venta a Argentina? Cierto podría decir algo en plan "no sabemos nada pero trataremos de atender las demandas de cualquier cliente potencial" pero ni creo que sea grave como lo han formulado ni creo que Saab vaya a hacer muchas concesiones a una posible venta a Argentina cuando UK es unn suministrador principal, socio en la UE de Suecia etc...
Iconoclasta
Colaborador
Ellos venden productos, mas allá del interes o no de nuestra parte, ellos van y ofrecen sus cosas.
Ellos evaluan posibles ventas, posibles asociaciones, deben tener todo medido.
Nunca vi a alguién que venda productos y servicios que diga "no, la verdad que no vinieron a golpearnos nuestra puerta con cientos de millones de dolares en efectivo a comprarnos nuestras genialidades, tan únicas"
Por lo general, pueden describir una situación e ir a buscar al cliente, mostrar ELLOS interes en vender, tocarnos el timbre, llamarnos por telefono, etc.... Asi creo que funcionan las ventas....
La verdad, que se los metan allí donde el sol no llega..... hay opciones mucho mas interesantes y convenientes de otros proveedores.
Ellos evaluan posibles ventas, posibles asociaciones, deben tener todo medido.
Nunca vi a alguién que venda productos y servicios que diga "no, la verdad que no vinieron a golpearnos nuestra puerta con cientos de millones de dolares en efectivo a comprarnos nuestras genialidades, tan únicas"
Por lo general, pueden describir una situación e ir a buscar al cliente, mostrar ELLOS interes en vender, tocarnos el timbre, llamarnos por telefono, etc.... Asi creo que funcionan las ventas....
La verdad, que se los metan allí donde el sol no llega..... hay opciones mucho mas interesantes y convenientes de otros proveedores.
- Estado