¿Gripen NG para la FAA?

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¿No se supone que una de las novedades del AESA del Grippen es que será el primero en un plato con movimiento físico?. Mientras que todos los otros son fijos.
Quizás me equivoco, pero entiendo que eso apareja varias ventajas. Por un lado, apuntar el AESA en ángulos más extremos, cubriendo así un área más amplia.
Por otro lado, optimizar el ángulo para varios usos. Entiendo que el AESA del resto están optimizados para el combate aire aire y no tiene la inclinación óptima para la exploración del terreno. en el Grippen se puede jubilar en la inclinación óptima para cada uso.
Por ultimo, la antena del Grippen es algo más pequeñas que otros aviones, por lo que poder apuntarla en una direción especifica permitiría compensar esto.

En todo caso, el Grippen, el Typhon y otros podrán lanzar el Meteor, misiles cruceros, así que lo que cuenta es que están acorde a las necesidades del combate moderno.
 
Pues que yo sepa, siempre se habló de que el captor-e iba a ser con antena rotatoria. Ya los grados que puede rotar, no lo recuerdo de memoria ahora mismo, y tampoco se si el del gripen podrá hacerlo en más o menos grados que este.
 
Creo que es más o menos esto, una mayor movilidad y angulácion del plato, creo que ni todos son fijos, eu Captor de los Typhons por ej. pero la angulacion del Raven es mayor, por lo menos asi parece.
Para el Raven la angulacion citada es 100º para cada lado.

sds.
 
En ingles:


Gripen Sensors Claim Counter-Stealth Performance
Mar 17, 2014Bill Sweetman | Aviation Week & Space Technology
  • New sensors being developed for the JAS 39E and close to starting flight tests on the JAS 39-7 Gripen Demo testbed will be able to detect low-radar-cross-section (RCS) targets, and will provide the pilots in a Gripen formation with a new level of situational awareness, according to Bob Mason, Selex-ES marketing director for advanced sensors.

    The JAS 39E will have three Selex-ES sensors. The Raven ES-05 active, electronically scanned array radar (AESA), developed by the company's Edinburgh unit, will be the first production AESA to be mounted on a “repositioner,” a rotating mount that gives the radar a ±100-deg. field of view around the nose. The Skyward-G infrared search and track (IRST) system (from Nebbiano, Italy) is based on experience with the Eurofighter Typhoon's Pirate IRST and Selex-developed land- and sea-based IRSTs. The fighter also has a new identification friend-or-foe (IFF) system with three electronically steerable antenna arrays, which matches the radar's range and field of view.

    The three main sensors will cue one another automatically to display to pilots a fused picture of airspace around the fighter; it will also be fused with the JAS's new electronic-warfare system. Finally, sensor data can be shared between Gripens in a flight via data link.

    The IRST is capable of detecting low-RCS targets at distances compatible with a beyond-visual-range missile launch, Mason says. “We have seen them,” he responds when asked if Selex IRSTs have tracked low-RCS targets. “We are looking at very small delta-Ts [temperature differences between the target and the background]. Some infrared absorbent paints cause more friction than standard surfaces, and that causes kinetic heating that the IRST will pick up.” Skyward-G does not depend on a supersonic target—“skin heating at 300-400 knots is significant”—and detects heat radiating through the aircraft's skin from the engine, as well as skin friction and the exhaust plume.

    The IRST uses a long-wave focal plane array sensor (a dual-band system, adding mid-wave capability, is a potential upgrade) with three fields of view. In its long-range search mode, the system is an IR telescope with a fast-moving scanning mirror (located in a transparent dome in front of the windshield) and “step-scans” through its search sector. It also has a single-target track mode, and in wide-field mode it provides a night-vision image on the head-up display. As a passive system, IRST does not have inherent range data, but it can perform “kinetic ranging”—the aircraft performs a weaving maneuver and the range is determined by the change in azimuth angle to the target—or the IRSTs on two aircraft can triangulate the target over the TAU-Link.

    IRST hardware—the optics, detector and processor—has been improved since the development of Pirate started, but (according to Mason and other industry sources) the most important change has been the development of algorithms, based on operational experience and the analysis of real-world imagery, that look at IR signatures in detail, including variations of color and brightness within the target, in order to filter out false alarms caused by everything from birds to barbecue grills.

    The IRST can give the radar a very accurate azimuth and elevation to the target, which allows it to focus its energy and increase the probability of achieving detection and track on a low-RCS target, Mason says. The AESA provides virtually instantaneous beam-steering within its ±70-deg. scan, but the repositioner is slower. One concept to be demonstrated will be the use of two Gripen radars and the TAU-Link to provide a wide-angle picture to both targets.

    The new IFF is designed to provide low-latency coverage over the radar's entire field of view and to its maximum range, and is independent of the radar. That approach has been selected to furnish the best possible information on cooperating targets (such as friendlies and commercial traffic), allowing the IRST and radar to concentrate on potentially hostile aircraft.

    Selex-ES is now delivering what it calls “C-model” sensors to Saab for installation on the Demo and the three JAS 39E development aircraft. These units are built to production standards, Mason says, but have not undergone the full range of tests required for full qualification. The C-Model IRST is expected to fly on the Demo imminently, the radar is being delivered to Linkoping and the IFF will arrive later in the year.

  • http://aviationweek.com/awin/gripen-sensors-claim-counter-stealth-performance
 
Eurofighter presenta el primer radar CAPTOR-E AESA
en CAZAS ESPECIAL SALÓN FARNBOROUGH 2014 por Luis Calvo — 16 Julio, 2014 at 19:11 | 0 comentarios


FARNBOROUGH 16/JULIO/2014. Entre las novedades presentadas este año en el salón de Farnborough encontramos el primer caza Eurofigter equipado con un radar CAPTOR-E AESA.



El general del Aire español Fernández de Bobadilla, el subsecretario de Estado británico y ministro de equipos de defensa, apoyo y tecnología, Phillip Dunne, el Secretario de estado alemán Ralf Braulsiepe y el general del Aire italiano Enzo Vecciarelli representaron a los cuatro países Eurofighter en la presentación del radar CAPTOR-E AESA en Farnborough.

Eurofighter, Euroradar y BAE Systems han trabajado conjuntamente para instalar este nuevo radar en el avión IPA5 (avión de producción instrumentado 5 por sus siglas en inglés).

La principal novedad de este radar es su antena tipo AESA (siglas de barrido electrónico activo), y con laque se espera cumplir los requerimientos operativos en este campo hasta más allá del año 2040.

El español Alberto Gutierrez, consejero delegado de Eurofighter ha comentado que “este radar AESA mejorará aún más la efectividad en combate del Eurofighter Typhoon y le permitirá mantener su superioridad sobre otros aviones de combate disponibles. Este radar se instalará tanto en los aviones de la Trancha 2 como de la Trancha 3”.

El radar CAPTOR-E AESA ofrece una serie de beneficios sobre el anterior como mayor alcance, tanto de detección como de seguimiento gracias a un mayor número de módulos transmsores-receptores; una capacidad aire-superficie avanzada; y una protección electrónica mejorada. Al mismo tiempo se mantiene la arquitectura del radar CAPTOR usado hasta ahora para mantener la madurez del sistema.

La nueva antena de barrido electrónico permite mantener un campo de barrido de 200 grados lo que supone una ventaja táctica en el combate y una mejora de la conciencia situacional.

Tags: Airbus Defense and Space Airbus DS Airbus Group bae systems CAPTOR-E eurofighterEuroradar Finmeccanica INDRA nuevo radar portada Selex ES


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Author: LuisCalvo

http://fly-news.es/militar/cazas/eurofighter-presenta-el-primer-radar-captor-e-aesa/
 
Para aclarar un poco, el Raven ES-05 del Gripen y el CAPTOR -E tendrán la misma caracterísitca: la antena será aesa pero montada sobre un sistema similar a los radares de barrido mecánico, lo que le permite buscar (o guiar a un misil BVR) en un grado mayor que una antena fija. Como ejemplo, ambos radares en cuestión tendrán la capacidad de "mirar" 200 grados horizontales centrados en la delantera del avión (100 grados a acada lado). Una antena fija (por ejemplo la de APG-77 del F22) llega a los 120 grados horizontales. Es una ventaja importante la que presentan los AESA "mecánicos". La desventaja es que la tasa de fallos ahora dependerá también de un brazo mecánico, lo que degenera la tasa ínfima de fallos que presentan los AESA.

La imagen que publicó como respuesta el forista Brasil (y que complementó el forista bras) indica exactamente esa capacidad: la de poder seguir dirigiendo al misil a su objetivo con mi avión volando en una dirección diagonal al objetivo (hasta lo podría hacer volando perpendicularmente a la dirección del objetivo), buscando salir de su radar, pero manteniéndolo en el mío gracias al movimiento de mi antena que me permite ver mas hacia los costados.

Supongo que esa capacidad es la que utiliza el forista Brasil para decir que son de 2da generación.

Con respecto a este tema, sin dudas que la mecanización de parte de la apertura de búsqueda otorga ventajas, pero la nariz "pequeña" del Gripen no permite colocar una antena tan grande como la del Eurofigther (50% de mas módulos TR), por lo que siempre estará en desventaja en la potencia, y casi proporcionalmente, en el alcance del radar.

saludos
 
De partida, el CAPTOR-E del EFA tendrá un 50% mas de módulos T/R (1500 vs 1000) que el Raven ES-05. Ambos son desarrollados por la misma empresa. Por armamento, el Tifón podrá portar el Meteor, un misil muy avanzado, equiparable a los mejores del mundo. El pack ECM del EFA está fuertemente desarrollado especialmente para y por ellos, no creo que sea fácilmente superado por el equipamiento vendido a un país del tercer mundo.

Solo quiero mostrarte que ambos aviones no son iguales. El EFA tiene en sus espaldas mucho desarrollo y mucho dinero. No creo que sea superado por ningún avión monomotor (quizá equiparado por el F-16 Block 60 que adopta mucha tecnología de aviones de 5ta gen). No porque sea bimotor, sinó porque el EFA fue diseñado para ser un caza de superioridad aérea sobre todas las cosas.

saludos
Selex, no compro las patentes para evitar cualquier veto ?
 

MAC1966

Colaborador
Colaborador
.
SAAB Y Embraer van a VENDER JUNTOS el Gripen NG
(defesanet)



.

La RCS del Gripen es menor que la del EF......... si señor.
 

Rumplestilskin

Colaborador
Colaborador
Bueno, tal vez....
l

Ahora, en serio, una imagen de un avión, limpio o cargado, no da para establecer comparaciones de RCS. Y lo que es más importante, ya que en ningún caso hablamos de verdaderos furtivos, si la diferencia de RCS que pueda existir se traduce realmente en una ventaja o queda anulada por los sensores o prestaciones del contrario. Y en una comparación Gripen VS EF o cualquier otro caza pesado,me parece que quizá sea la variable más importante.

Puesto a apostar, voy por los grandotes, por la sencilla razón de que quien puede pagarlos también va por ellos.
 
La RCS del Gripen es menor que la del EF......... si señor.
Bueno esta es la estimación:
  • Gripen: 0,1m2
  • Eurofighter 0,25-0,75 m2
Es referente a una media brasilera, lo que puede llevantar dudas claro, pero no creo que debe estar fuera de la realidade, ahora una comparison interesante entre cazas ocidentales se puede ver en este enlace:

http://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/comparing-modern-western-fighters/

Lo sé que comparaciones de este con aquele avion no llevan a nada y si, el Tifo es superior, pero no es incontestable y el Grifo no está tan mal parado.

sds.
 
Última edición:

MAC1966

Colaborador
Colaborador
Bueno, tal vez....
l

Ahora, en serio, una imagen de un avión, limpio o cargado, no da para establecer comparaciones de RCS. Y lo que es más importante, ya que en ningún caso hablamos de verdaderos furtivos, si la diferencia de RCS que pueda existir se traduce realmente en una ventaja o queda anulada por los sensores o prestaciones del contrario. Y en una comparación Gripen VS EF o cualquier otro caza pesado,me parece que quizá sea la variable más importante.

Puesto a apostar, voy por los grandotes, por la sencilla razón de que quien puede pagarlos también va por ellos.

Correcto, entre estos aviones, la RCS diría que es lo de menos, tanto cargados como limpios, aunque el EF lleva los Meteor semicarenados, pero si, los sensores es donde cada uno demuestra cual de ellos va a sobrevivir, y yo apuesto por el EF. Aunque no creo que se enfrenten jamás.
 

MAC1966

Colaborador
Colaborador
Bueno esta es la estimación:
  • Gripen: 0,1m2
  • Eurofighter 0,25-0,75 m2
Es referente a una media brasilera, lo que puede llevantar dudas claro, pero no creo que debe estar fuera de la realidade, ahora una comparison interesante entre cazas ocidentales se puede ver en este enlace:

http://defenseissues.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/comparing-modern-western-fighters/

Lo sé que comparaciones de este con aquele avion no llevan a nada y si, el Tifo es superior, pero no es incontestable y el Grifo no está tan mal parado.

sds.

Intentaba ser sarcástico, los dos tienen que sobrevivir a base de sensores, no de furtividad.
 
Bueno esta es la estimación:
  • Gripen: 0,1m2
  • Eurofighter 0,25-0,75 m2


No te olvides que esta comparacion es hecha con el JAS-39C/D (o A/B)


En el E/F fue reducido este numero (muchas notas diciendo sobre esto), entonces estimamos que es bien menor que lo rcs del Typhoon.

"O Gripen NG teve como foco a redução da assinatura de radar RCS, que na versão A era de 0,5m2 no setor frontal, já na C é de 0,1m2 e na versão E será inferior a 0,1m2 ficando próximo a 0,05m2. Grande parte da redução do RCS do NG (E/F) se deve a pequena aérea alar da aeronave, inclinação da face do radar, grande utilização de materiais compostos na estrutura da aeronave e as pequenas alterações na forma do vetor visando a redução da assinatura EM"

Saludos
 
Última edición:
Correcto, entre estos aviones, la RCS diría que es lo de menos, tanto cargados como limpios, aunque el EF lleva los Meteor semicarenados, pero si, los sensores es donde cada uno demuestra cual de ellos va a sobrevivir, y yo apuesto por el EF. Aunque no creo que se enfrenten jamás.
"Nunca digas nunca".
 

MAC1966

Colaborador
Colaborador
"Nunca digas nunca".

No veo ningún cliente actual de Gripen con posibilidades de enfrentarse a un usuario de Tifón. Bueno, quizá Suecia le declare la guerra a Alemania......... :D

De los futuros ya veremos, si hay futuros.......
 
A

Andy Green

Lo siento amigos....... No va a pasar.......

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...14/Argentina-Buying-Gripens-Brits-Say-No-Way-

LONDON — Argentina’s Defense Minister Agustin Rossi surprised just about everybody when he announced on Oct. 21 that his government intended to buy 24 Saab Gripen E fighters to re-equip his nation’s ancient Air Force.

But Rossi’s request appeared to ignore a likely insurmountable hurdle to the sale: Britain, its longtime foe, has a near veto on the export of the combat jet as a result of the substantial number of UK systems in the jet. More than 30 percent of the new version of the Gripen being developed by Saab is supplied by British industry.

Selex ES’ key active electronically scanned array radar, landing gear, ejection seat, electronic system and other sub-systems would all be hit by a British block on military exports to Argentina.

British business secretary Vince Cable invoked the ban on the sale of all military and dual-use technology for use by Argentina in 2012. That export license is still in place and will likely remain given the impasse between the two nations over resolving the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands.

“We are determined to ensure that no British-licensable exports or trade have the potential to be used by Argentina to impose an economic blockade on the Malvinas Islanders or inhibit their legitimate rights to develop their own economy,” said a spokesperson for the UK Department of Business, Innovation and Skills.


The Argentinean defense minister made the purchase of the aircraft dependent on his country participating in the Gripen E program signed by Saab and the Brazilian government, which will see South America’s biggest nation buy at least 36 fighters.

The deal involves an assembly line set up by Embraer in Brazil, joint development of a two-seat version of the Gripen and an export drive to other South American air forces.

Ironically, the UK government supported the Gripen sale to Brazil due to the high level of British material in the aircraft.

Doug Barrie, the senior air analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London said that while it would be feasible to replace UK systems on the Gripen, the practicalities are something different.

“Argentina is not flush with money, and the reality is that replacing such key systems as the UK supplies would come with significantly high requalification costs,” he said.

Sources with knowledge of the South American fighter market said Saab has been approached several times over the past few years by the Argentineans over a possible Gripen deal only to be quietly rebuffed by the Swedish company.

A Saab spokesman said the company noted the reports of discussions on Gripen between Brazil and Argentina, but did not have any further information.

“Brazil will become a close partner in the Gripen development and production program. However, all exports of Gripen will continue to be subject to the current, very stringent export regulations,” he said. “In terms of UK equipment on the aircraft, there is no request to change any of this equipment and no plan to do so.”

Rossi’s announcement during a roll-out ceremony of Embraer’s KC-390 airlifter in Brazil caused alarm in Britain, which is in a long-running dispute with Argentina over who owns the Malvinas Islands, which Argentina calls the Malivinas Islands.

The issue came up in the UK Parliament last week and the House of Commons defense committee tried to quiz armed forces chiefs on Nov. 5 about the implications for the defense of the islands from a Gripen sale to Argentina.

Argentina invaded the Falkands in 1982, sparking a war with the British. That has resulted in an enduring and costly UK military presence of fighter jets, warships and troops being stationed on the islands since Argentina was defeated.

The dispute has been revived in recent years by Argentinean President Cristina Kirchener, who has made reclaiming the islands a central plank of her policy.

Argentina has been trying to replace the aging fleet of Dassault combat aircraft for some time. Most recently, second-hand Spanish Air Force Mirage F1s were being considered, but that deal has yet to materialize. hasn’t yet come to anything.

Few people are expecting a discussion on Gripen to come to anything, either given Britain’s stance on military export and Argentina’s economic woes. But even if it doesn’t, the issue has raised awareness in Britain of how the military position could change in that part of the world if Argentina was re-equiped with more modern jets and missiles.

Francis Tuser, the editor of Defence Analysis here, said the Gripen issue highlighted that if a deal of this nature went ahead, it would “dramatically and dangerously” change Britain’s situation on the Malvinas.

“Although there is a decade-long timeline on this event, it has the capability to change at a stroke, the balance of power in the South Atlantic, and would cause a major change to the UK’s defense posture there,” he said. “If it isn’t addressed in the 2015 strategic defense and security review, then it will have to be addressed as a priority, but that might be too late or at least very expensive.”
 
Última edición por un moderador:

Fierro

Fotógrafo oficial ZM
Lo siento amigos....... No va a pasar.......

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...14/Argentina-Buying-Gripens-Brits-Say-No-Way-

LONDON — Argentina’s Defense Minister Agustin Rossi surprised just about everybody when he announced on Oct. 21 that his government intended to buy 24 Saab Gripen E fighters to re-equip his nation’s ancient Air Force.

But Rossi’s request appeared to ignore a likely insurmountable hurdle to the sale: Britain, its longtime foe, has a near veto on the export of the combat jet as a result of the substantial number of UK systems in the jet. More than 30 percent of the new version of the Gripen being developed by Saab is supplied by British industry.

Selex ES’ key active electronically scanned array radar, landing gear, ejection seat, electronic system and other sub-systems would all be hit by a British block on military exports to Argentina.

British business secretary Vince Cable invoked the ban on the sale of all military and dual-use technology for use by Argentina in 2012. That export license is still in place and will likely remain given the impasse between the two nations over resolving the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands.

“We are determined to ensure that no British-licensable exports or trade have the potential to be used by Argentina to impose an economic blockade on the Malvinas Islanders or inhibit their legitimate rights to develop their own economy,” said a spokesperson for the UK Department of Business, Innovation and Skills.


The Argentinean defense minister made the purchase of the aircraft dependent on his country participating in the Gripen E program signed by Saab and the Brazilian government, which will see South America’s biggest nation buy at least 36 fighters.

The deal involves an assembly line set up by Embraer in Brazil, joint development of a two-seat version of the Gripen and an export drive to other South American air forces.

Ironically, the UK government supported the Gripen sale to Brazil due to the high level of British material in the aircraft.

Doug Barrie, the senior air analyst at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London said that while it would be feasible to replace UK systems on the Gripen, the practicalities are something different.

“Argentina is not flush with money, and the reality is that replacing such key systems as the UK supplies would come with significantly high requalification costs,” he said.

Sources with knowledge of the South American fighter market said Saab has been approached several times over the past few years by the Argentineans over a possible Gripen deal only to be quietly rebuffed by the Swedish company.

A Saab spokesman said the company noted the reports of discussions on Gripen between Brazil and Argentina, but did not have any further information.

“Brazil will become a close partner in the Gripen development and production program. However, all exports of Gripen will continue to be subject to the current, very stringent export regulations,” he said. “In terms of UK equipment on the aircraft, there is no request to change any of this equipment and no plan to do so.”

Rossi’s announcement during a roll-out ceremony of Embraer’s KC-390 airlifter in Brazil caused alarm in Britain, which is in a long-running dispute with Argentina over who owns the Malvinas Islands, which Argentina calls the Malivinas Islands.

The issue came up in the UK Parliament last week and the House of Commons defense committee tried to quiz armed forces chiefs on Nov. 5 about the implications for the defense of the islands from a Gripen sale to Argentina.

Argentina invaded the Falkands in 1982, sparking a war with the British. That has resulted in an enduring and costly UK military presence of fighter jets, warships and troops being stationed on the islands since Argentina was defeated.

The dispute has been revived in recent years by Argentinean President Cristina Kirchener, who has made reclaiming the islands a central plank of her policy.

Argentina has been trying to replace the aging fleet of Dassault combat aircraft for some time. Most recently, second-hand Spanish Air Force Mirage F1s were being considered, but that deal has yet to materialize. hasn’t yet come to anything.

Few people are expecting a discussion on Gripen to come to anything, either given Britain’s stance on military export and Argentina’s economic woes. But even if it doesn’t, the issue has raised awareness in Britain of how the military position could change in that part of the world if Argentina was re-equiped with more modern jets and missiles.

Francis Tuser, the editor of Defence Analysis here, said the Gripen issue highlighted that if a deal of this nature went ahead, it would “dramatically and dangerously” change Britain’s situation on the Malvinas.

“Although there is a decade-long timeline on this event, it has the capability to change at a stroke, the balance of power in the South Atlantic, and would cause a major change to the UK’s defense posture there,” he said. “If it isn’t addressed in the 2015 strategic defense and security review, then it will have to be addressed as a priority, but that might be too late or at least very expensive.”
¿Hay embargo, no hay embargo, con plata se arregla todo, negocios son negocios? ¿Cómo es el tema?
 
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