Una rareza...
- Tema iniciado SuperEtendard
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Sobre la Stark, hay discusiones interminables al igual que con respecto al Shefield, que el Phalanx no estaba en automático, que el capitan estaba durmiendo la siesta, que el jefe de operaciones estaba fumanchu, etc. etc. Lo real y concreto es que se comió uno o dos AM39, depende de la fuente de información. Por eso Tano, de memoria puse que lanzó un F1, cuando en realidad es un tema debatido partiendo de si fue 1 o 2 los misiles lanzados.
Ahora, para agregar un poco mas de pimienta al tema, creo que en el marco de esas operaciones y las subsiguientes que involucraron a la Us Navy en el Golfo, hubo mas ataques con misiles, y concretamente con Silkworm. Yo recuerdo uno, tal vez el mas comentado, donde una T42 derribó con sus sea dart uno durante la guerra del golfo.
Pero que pasó con el USS Gary y dos de estos amiguitos que le fueron lanzados?
Saludos.
Ahora, para agregar un poco mas de pimienta al tema, creo que en el marco de esas operaciones y las subsiguientes que involucraron a la Us Navy en el Golfo, hubo mas ataques con misiles, y concretamente con Silkworm. Yo recuerdo uno, tal vez el mas comentado, donde una T42 derribó con sus sea dart uno durante la guerra del golfo.
Pero que pasó con el USS Gary y dos de estos amiguitos que le fueron lanzados?
Saludos.
Puedo estar casi seguro que para Tormenta del Desierto Susana no estaba operativa y cayo victima de los A-6 del VA-145 "Swordmen" abordo del USS Ranger entre la primera y la 3ra noche de empezado las hostilidades.Lamentablemente para Susana, todas las bases, estaciones etc, que alojaran o tuvieran sistemas anti buque fueron target nº1 para los aviones del USS Ranger desde el instante en que dijeron Go! ya mas de 20 años (!!)Pero prometo investigar sobre el asunto (aunque me mantengo, tengo la coleccion de "discovery wings:wings over the gulf, y estoy seguro de que vi un Falcon degustando una bomba, pero esta en VHS asi que tendre que desempolvar el VCR ;-)....)Si no me equivoco, Peter Hunt (pilot de A-6 en 1991, escritor ahora) menciona esto en su libro "Angles of Attack, an A-6 Intruder pilot´s war".
Best regards
Prowler
Best regards
Prowler
S
SnAkE_OnE
Ya se exporto a India..
--- merged: 13 Jul 2012 a las 14:38 ---
La proxima te copio la conclusion del Naval Surface Warfare Center con el Jefe de la Armada Iraqui de esa epoca..tiene el analisis y la descripcion de Susana y asimismo la accion que lleva a ese ataque.
Ok..encontre luz al respecto, de parte de Tom Cooper:
USS Stark was not attacked by a Dassault Mirage F.1EQ fighter-bomber, but - actually - by a Dassault Falcon 50 biz-jet, modified through addition of a radome and entire avionics set of Mirage F.1EQ-5, plus two underwing hardpoints for AM.39 Exocet anti-ship missiles. Nick-named "Susanna" in IrAF service, this plane was originally intended as a training aid for future Iraqi Mirage pilots, and thus contained not only an entire cockpit of the Mirage F.1 but also an additional fuel tank inside its cabin.
Now, as well known, USS Stark was hit by two Exocets, one of which failed to detonate. "Standard" Mirage F.1EQ-5 could carry two of these big missiles as well, but was very sluggish and slow once airborne. Flying it over 300km away from base proved extremely tiresome for pilots. Susanna could do so without any particular problems.
Why is this important, actually?
Well, following the end of the war with Iran, in 1988, the Iraqis continued adding upgrades to Susanna, including a capability to carry yet more fuel - this time inside a standard RP.35 drop tank, mounted under the centreline. With this, the plane had not only the range to reach, for example, Mumbai when operating out of Shoibiyah AB (former "RAF Shaiba", near Basrah), but also enough range to reach its intended operational zone, namely the "Eastern Mediterranean" - and that along a circuitous route (via Turkey, for example).
BTW, according to a letter from the then Iraqi Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Secretary General UN, from September 1991, together with three other Falcon 50s, Susanna was "evacuated" to Iran. The plane was never seen again ever since...
"Uss stark no fue atacado por un F1EQ sino por un Fñacon50 modificado con el radomo y la avionica entera de un f1 ademas
de 2 soportes bajo las alas para AM39 Exocet.Apodado Susana en la IrAF este avion era originalmente concebido como una ayuda para el
entrenamiento de futuros pilots de F1, por lo que no solo contenia toda la cabina de un F1 sino un tankq de combustible adicional en la cabina
Despues de la guerra con Iran en 1988, los iraquis continuaron mejorando a Susaba, incluyendo la capacidad de llevar mas combustible, esta ves
en un tanque lanzable estandard en el vientre"
dice ademas, que si bien el F1 podia llevar 2 exocet (novedad para mi) era dificil de volar, y muy cansado, pero en cambio, Susana lo hacia sin ningun problema.Sobre el final de Susana, Tom Cooper dice lo mismo de que huyo a Iran, pero voy a investigar!
Best regards
Prowler
USS Stark was not attacked by a Dassault Mirage F.1EQ fighter-bomber, but - actually - by a Dassault Falcon 50 biz-jet, modified through addition of a radome and entire avionics set of Mirage F.1EQ-5, plus two underwing hardpoints for AM.39 Exocet anti-ship missiles. Nick-named "Susanna" in IrAF service, this plane was originally intended as a training aid for future Iraqi Mirage pilots, and thus contained not only an entire cockpit of the Mirage F.1 but also an additional fuel tank inside its cabin.
Now, as well known, USS Stark was hit by two Exocets, one of which failed to detonate. "Standard" Mirage F.1EQ-5 could carry two of these big missiles as well, but was very sluggish and slow once airborne. Flying it over 300km away from base proved extremely tiresome for pilots. Susanna could do so without any particular problems.
Why is this important, actually?
Well, following the end of the war with Iran, in 1988, the Iraqis continued adding upgrades to Susanna, including a capability to carry yet more fuel - this time inside a standard RP.35 drop tank, mounted under the centreline. With this, the plane had not only the range to reach, for example, Mumbai when operating out of Shoibiyah AB (former "RAF Shaiba", near Basrah), but also enough range to reach its intended operational zone, namely the "Eastern Mediterranean" - and that along a circuitous route (via Turkey, for example).
BTW, according to a letter from the then Iraqi Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Secretary General UN, from September 1991, together with three other Falcon 50s, Susanna was "evacuated" to Iran. The plane was never seen again ever since...
"Uss stark no fue atacado por un F1EQ sino por un Fñacon50 modificado con el radomo y la avionica entera de un f1 ademas
de 2 soportes bajo las alas para AM39 Exocet.Apodado Susana en la IrAF este avion era originalmente concebido como una ayuda para el
entrenamiento de futuros pilots de F1, por lo que no solo contenia toda la cabina de un F1 sino un tankq de combustible adicional en la cabina
Despues de la guerra con Iran en 1988, los iraquis continuaron mejorando a Susaba, incluyendo la capacidad de llevar mas combustible, esta ves
en un tanque lanzable estandard en el vientre"
dice ademas, que si bien el F1 podia llevar 2 exocet (novedad para mi) era dificil de volar, y muy cansado, pero en cambio, Susana lo hacia sin ningun problema.Sobre el final de Susana, Tom Cooper dice lo mismo de que huyo a Iran, pero voy a investigar!
Best regards
Prowler
S
SnAkE_OnE
Vale aclarar que tambien solo habia UN piloto calificado..y no era cazador, era transportero.
Si Tano, lo había leído en su momento. Lastima que no está mas en línea. Pero justamente al leer ese artículo hace tiempo investigué un poco el tema en la red y las fuentes de USA no daban detalles de las acciones de la Gary. hoy retomando el tema mientras escribía y trataba de recordar el nombre de la Gary encontré esto:
De esta fuente: http://www.facebook.com/AnonymousTheLifeTimesAndStoriesOfAUsNavyWarship
Abrazo.
Silkworm Nuttin'
"Missile inbound, all hands brace for impact!!!" The Executive Officer put that little gem out over the 1MC, the ship wide intercom system. The 1MC was normally the conveyor of when chow was ready, what time it was, when the ships store was open so I could grab a pack of smokes, when a new watch went on duty as well as a whole myriad of other niceties. Today, at just that moment,
it heralded the first act of aggression directly thrown at my ship, my home, me.
You are f----g kidding me. Ok, my pals in Combat surely were tracking that big lumbering Chinese piece o' crap just as I was thinking that thought. Although we had some of the most sophisticated weapon systems developed for an economy class warship that the lowest bidder could make we had full faith in them, they were all we had. FC2 Shitstain was diligently working the track ball on his fire control terminal, trying to get a lock on the missile so that with the push of a button and a rumbling whoosshh the 15 foot bright white gleaming Standard Surface to Air missile would take flight and travel at over 3 times the speed of sound to its target lumbering somewhere out of Iranian airspace over the waters of the northern Persian Gulf. We were at battle stations and red & free, we were free to shoot and destroy anyone f----g with us. This certainly was considered 'f----g with'. Our esteemed Fire Controlman was unable to get his stubborn radar to get lock on which would have ended this bullsh-t really quick. So our long range weapon wasn't helping, so now it was my babies turn. Our MK 75 76mm (3”) gun had an effective range of about 10 nautical miles at a firing rate of 80 rounds per minute, she worked flawlessly during all of our training exercises and test firings. Never personally saw it shoot down a missile but, heck, the weapons engineers knew what they were doing, right? Only problem here is it required the same guy on the same fire control radar. The 80 rounds were loaded in the vertical magazine and ready to get worked up the chain and out of the barrel towards our little gunner's mate victory, but uuuuh nope, couldn't shoot except manually, not liking those odds too much right about now.
Now if we were just cruising around solo, that would've been one thing, but on this particular day, in this particular part of this flaming Middle Eastern hot zone, we were providing protection for two of our mobile sea bases, Hercules and Wimbrown,which were an operational platform and local home for the US Special Operations Command, comprised of Navy SEAL's, Army Special Air Command, and a host of others, they were sitting ducks at that moment. The Skipper positioned the Gary in between the sea bases and the incoming missile and turned our stern towards it to give our CIWS (Close in Weapons System) a clear shot at the same time we were popping off chaff and decoys to hopefully throw off the missiles guidance.
You are f----g kidding me. Ok, my pals in Combat surely were tracking that big lumbering Chinese piece o' crap just as I was thinking that thought. Although we had some of the most sophisticated weapon systems developed for an economy class warship that the lowest bidder could make we had full faith in them, they were all we had. FC2 Shitstain was diligently working the track ball on his fire control terminal, trying to get a lock on the missile so that with the push of a button and a rumbling whoosshh the 15 foot bright white gleaming Standard Surface to Air missile would take flight and travel at over 3 times the speed of sound to its target lumbering somewhere out of Iranian airspace over the waters of the northern Persian Gulf. We were at battle stations and red & free, we were free to shoot and destroy anyone f----g with us. This certainly was considered 'f----g with'. Our esteemed Fire Controlman was unable to get his stubborn radar to get lock on which would have ended this bullsh-t really quick. So our long range weapon wasn't helping, so now it was my babies turn. Our MK 75 76mm (3”) gun had an effective range of about 10 nautical miles at a firing rate of 80 rounds per minute, she worked flawlessly during all of our training exercises and test firings. Never personally saw it shoot down a missile but, heck, the weapons engineers knew what they were doing, right? Only problem here is it required the same guy on the same fire control radar. The 80 rounds were loaded in the vertical magazine and ready to get worked up the chain and out of the barrel towards our little gunner's mate victory, but uuuuh nope, couldn't shoot except manually, not liking those odds too much right about now.
Now if we were just cruising around solo, that would've been one thing, but on this particular day, in this particular part of this flaming Middle Eastern hot zone, we were providing protection for two of our mobile sea bases, Hercules and Wimbrown,which were an operational platform and local home for the US Special Operations Command, comprised of Navy SEAL's, Army Special Air Command, and a host of others, they were sitting ducks at that moment. The Skipper positioned the Gary in between the sea bases and the incoming missile and turned our stern towards it to give our CIWS (Close in Weapons System) a clear shot at the same time we were popping off chaff and decoys to hopefully throw off the missiles guidance.
As we were zigging and zagging at 30+ knots, everyone’s hearts were racing wondering how this was going to end up. If the silkworm finished its path to us and made a direct hit, we would've been obliterated. To be continued...
De esta fuente: http://www.facebook.com/AnonymousTheLifeTimesAndStoriesOfAUsNavyWarship
Abrazo.
Señores he investigado este tema y segun lei existen las dos versiones una que los misiles fueron lanzados por un Falcon 50 y otra por un Mirage F-1EQ, dañando a la fragata USS Stark, la versión más consistente para mi es que fue atacado por un Mirage F-1EQ mejorado de la segunda serie según lei (podía llevar 2), diferente a los primeros que se habian entregado en primera instancia y que solo podía transportar y lanzar un solo AM-39 Exocet. Incluso tengo el nombre del piloto que ahora no lo tengo aca, pero este habia volado 15 misiones y tenía 1300 hs de vuelo (800 en Mirage).
S
SnAkE_OnE
Yo en algun topic subi la declaracion textual del jefe de la Armada Iraqui, de que fue Susana...el piloto era transportero, era el unico que sabia usar todo y el tipo no dormia 2 veces en la misma cama. Despues se llevaron el Falcon 50 a Iran y no volvio mas.,
Según la página acig.org el piloto que ataco a la USS Stark fue el Capitán Ahmad Salem que fue condecorado por el derribo de un helicóptero “Cobra” Iraní y como consecuencia fue enviado a Francia dónde se especializo en el Mirage F-1EQ. Durante la guerra, lanzo misiles AM-39 Exocet con aviones Mirage F-1EQ-5, realizando un total de 15 misiones antibuqes contra los petroleros Iraníes en las cercanias de la Isla de Khark. En marzo de 1987, mientras escoltaba un ataque de aviones Su-22 contra instalaciones en Khark, reclamo el derribo de un F-4E Phantom Irani por medio de dos misiles aire-aire Magic R.550Mk-I. Su carrera como piloto del caza llego a su fin abruptamente cuando ataco a la fragata USS Stark (FFG-31) el 15 de mayo de 1987 con dos Exocets, causando la muerte a 37 marineros americanos. A pesar de su protesta y la de sus superiores, no se le autorizo a volar más y quedo bajo la observación de los servicios de inteligenci Iraquí, y al ver amenzada su vida por el regimen Iraquí escapo del país en 1989.
SnAKE_OnE si tenes esa declaración del Jefe de la Armada Iraqui te agradesco, no la tengo. Gracias
SnAKE_OnE si tenes esa declaración del Jefe de la Armada Iraqui te agradesco, no la tengo. Gracias
S
SnAkE_OnE
EN algun otro post se hablo de esto..y ahi meti la foto con la captura del PDF.
Muy dificil de ubicar me lo podes enviar a [email protected] no tengo ese dado y estaria bueno tomarlo en cuenta. Gracias
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