S
SnAkE_OnE
cita de Poder Naval.br
JL-9/L-15 para que?
Si no son patrulleras y vienen con armamento antibuque/antiaéreo lo veo muy bien para reforzar a la flota, supongamos que se de, los misiles chinos no sería una buena opción para las 140?
Si no son patrulleras y vienen con armamento antibuque/antiaéreo lo veo muy bien para reforzar a la flota, supongamos que se de, los misiles chinos no sería una buena opción para las 140?
S
SnAkE_OnE
Definitivamente.
No entiendo mucho de buques pero con mas de 1.800 de desplazamiento mas el armamento siguen siendo catalogadas como corvetas?
Las claseficaciones son siempre arbitrarias.
No entiendo mucho de buques pero con mas de 1.800 de desplazamiento mas el armamento siguen siendo catalogadas como corvetas?
Las 360 son fragatas para la mayoría, pero para nosotros son destructores.
Solo para sumar al comentario de Nocturno Culto... hay países que llaman fragatas a barcos que en otros países probablemente hubiesen clasificado como destructores.
Hoy en día se utilizan términos como fragatas y destructores para referirse a buques que en la década de 1960 y 1970 probablemente se hubiesen clasificado como cruceros.
Mientras tanto, en las últimas semanas Estados Unidos decidió re clasificar a sus buques de guerra litoral como fragatas, aunque personalmente me hubiese parecido más apropiado considerarlas corbetas.
Y si sumamos patrulleros y lanchas al debate la cosa sigue.
Por ejemplo, las nuevas corbetas turcas del proyecto MILGEN desplazan 2.300 Tn.
No me extrañaría que existieran aún más grandes.
Pienso, por tanto, dos cosas.
Primero, las clasificaciones dependen de las épocas y de las tradiciones de cada país.
Segundo, el desplazamiento por sí sólo no dice mucho. Más bien dice poco y nada.
Hoy en día se utilizan términos como fragatas y destructores para referirse a buques que en la década de 1960 y 1970 probablemente se hubiesen clasificado como cruceros.
Mientras tanto, en las últimas semanas Estados Unidos decidió re clasificar a sus buques de guerra litoral como fragatas, aunque personalmente me hubiese parecido más apropiado considerarlas corbetas.
Y si sumamos patrulleros y lanchas al debate la cosa sigue.
Por ejemplo, las nuevas corbetas turcas del proyecto MILGEN desplazan 2.300 Tn.
No me extrañaría que existieran aún más grandes.
Pienso, por tanto, dos cosas.
Primero, las clasificaciones dependen de las épocas y de las tradiciones de cada país.
Segundo, el desplazamiento por sí sólo no dice mucho. Más bien dice poco y nada.
Última edición:
Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is expected to sign agreements with China to increase military co-operation, including construction of new warships for the Argentine Navy, during a visit to Beijing on 3-5 February, according to media reports.
The expanded level of Argentine-Chinese military co-operation, which has been about a year in preparation, follows the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on 29 October 2014 by an Argentine-Chinese Joint Committee on Co-operation in the Field of Defence Technology and Industry. The actual joint development programmes were finalised during a visit by a Chinese defence trade delegation to Buenos Aires in late January.
Argentine reports indicate the agreement to be signed in Beijing could cover co-production in Argentina of the Norinco VN1 wheeled armoured personnel carrier (APC) and co-operation in building a new ice-breaker, naval tugboats, mobile hospitals, and new warships for the Argentine Navy.
In late 2014 the Argentine government reportedly accepted a Chinese offer to meet its long-standing requirement for a new class of offshore patrol vessel. Over the last decade Argentina has considered purchasing designs from Brazil, Germany, and Spain, but China has reportedly succeeded in selling a more capable warship: a version of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation's (CSIC) P18 export corvette.
Somewhat controversially, this vessel will be known as the Malvinas class, after the Argentine name for the Malvinas Islands: a UK sovereign territory that Argentine forces invaded in April 1982 before being defeated by a British task force in a conflict that claimed 907 lives.
Two P18N corvettes were sold to Nigeria in 2012 for USD42 million each.
According to Brazilian web magazine Naval Power , an initial Argentine contract may include two ships built in China and three co-produced in Argentina. An Argentine source noted the price for the ships could be USD50 million each.
The P18 corvette displaces 1,800 tonnes, is 95 m long, 12 m wide, and is powered by two German-designed MTU 20V 4000M diesel engines to achieve a speed of 25 kt. It can be armed with a 76 mm main gun, two 30 mm cannons, up to eight anti-ship missiles, two triple torpedo launchers, and can carry one medium-sized helicopter.
Naval Power reported that Argentina has requested a larger flight deck to handle its 10-tonne Sea King helicopters and a towed sonar to increase its anti-submarine capability.
Delivery of the Argentine P18s could start in 2017.
Reports from mid-2014 indicate the Argentine Army evaluated the Norinco VN1 8x8 amphibious APC, considering its 21-tonne infantry fighting vehicle variant along with 105 mm gun- and 120 mm mortar-armed versions. Argentina could acquire up to 110 VN1s, according to Naval Power .
Venezuela's marines took delivery of the region's first VN1s at the end of December 2014.
ANALYSIS
If concluded, this defence agreement could mark a major step in Argentina's long-standing effort to revive its military capabilities and would constitute a major success for China's 15-year endeavour to expand its military influence and market share in Latin America.
Since the 1982 Malvinas War, China has expressed its support for Argentina's continued claims over the islands, which Beijing compares to its claim over Taiwan. However, China's willingness to accept commodity payments to finance initial loans that fund military sales has been key to its military sales success in Argentina.
In 2011 the Fábrica Argentina de Aviones (Argentine Aircraft Factory: FAdeA) reached an agreement to start co-producing China's Changhe Z-11 light helicopter. Then, in June 2013, FAdeA sources told IHS Jane's that talks over co-production of the Chengdu FC-1 lightweight jet fighter had occurred over the previous two years. This option appears to have been lost as Argentina has tried and failed to purchase retired Dassault Mirage F1 fighters from Spain, then refurbished Israeli Aircraft Industry Kfir fighters and, in late 2014, Saab Gripen fighters co-produced in Brazil.
However, the new Argentine-Chinese defence agreement could revive prospects for combat aircraft co-operation. In addition to the FC-1 fighter, China could offer low-cost combat-capable supersonic lead-in trainers like the Guizhou JL-9G/FTC-2000G or the Hongdu L-15.
The expanded level of Argentine-Chinese military co-operation, which has been about a year in preparation, follows the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on 29 October 2014 by an Argentine-Chinese Joint Committee on Co-operation in the Field of Defence Technology and Industry. The actual joint development programmes were finalised during a visit by a Chinese defence trade delegation to Buenos Aires in late January.
Argentine reports indicate the agreement to be signed in Beijing could cover co-production in Argentina of the Norinco VN1 wheeled armoured personnel carrier (APC) and co-operation in building a new ice-breaker, naval tugboats, mobile hospitals, and new warships for the Argentine Navy.
In late 2014 the Argentine government reportedly accepted a Chinese offer to meet its long-standing requirement for a new class of offshore patrol vessel. Over the last decade Argentina has considered purchasing designs from Brazil, Germany, and Spain, but China has reportedly succeeded in selling a more capable warship: a version of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation's (CSIC) P18 export corvette.
Somewhat controversially, this vessel will be known as the Malvinas class, after the Argentine name for the Malvinas Islands: a UK sovereign territory that Argentine forces invaded in April 1982 before being defeated by a British task force in a conflict that claimed 907 lives.
Two P18N corvettes were sold to Nigeria in 2012 for USD42 million each.
According to Brazilian web magazine Naval Power , an initial Argentine contract may include two ships built in China and three co-produced in Argentina. An Argentine source noted the price for the ships could be USD50 million each.
The P18 corvette displaces 1,800 tonnes, is 95 m long, 12 m wide, and is powered by two German-designed MTU 20V 4000M diesel engines to achieve a speed of 25 kt. It can be armed with a 76 mm main gun, two 30 mm cannons, up to eight anti-ship missiles, two triple torpedo launchers, and can carry one medium-sized helicopter.
Naval Power reported that Argentina has requested a larger flight deck to handle its 10-tonne Sea King helicopters and a towed sonar to increase its anti-submarine capability.
Delivery of the Argentine P18s could start in 2017.
Reports from mid-2014 indicate the Argentine Army evaluated the Norinco VN1 8x8 amphibious APC, considering its 21-tonne infantry fighting vehicle variant along with 105 mm gun- and 120 mm mortar-armed versions. Argentina could acquire up to 110 VN1s, according to Naval Power .
Venezuela's marines took delivery of the region's first VN1s at the end of December 2014.
ANALYSIS
If concluded, this defence agreement could mark a major step in Argentina's long-standing effort to revive its military capabilities and would constitute a major success for China's 15-year endeavour to expand its military influence and market share in Latin America.
Since the 1982 Malvinas War, China has expressed its support for Argentina's continued claims over the islands, which Beijing compares to its claim over Taiwan. However, China's willingness to accept commodity payments to finance initial loans that fund military sales has been key to its military sales success in Argentina.
In 2011 the Fábrica Argentina de Aviones (Argentine Aircraft Factory: FAdeA) reached an agreement to start co-producing China's Changhe Z-11 light helicopter. Then, in June 2013, FAdeA sources told IHS Jane's that talks over co-production of the Chengdu FC-1 lightweight jet fighter had occurred over the previous two years. This option appears to have been lost as Argentina has tried and failed to purchase retired Dassault Mirage F1 fighters from Spain, then refurbished Israeli Aircraft Industry Kfir fighters and, in late 2014, Saab Gripen fighters co-produced in Brazil.
However, the new Argentine-Chinese defence agreement could revive prospects for combat aircraft co-operation. In addition to the FC-1 fighter, China could offer low-cost combat-capable supersonic lead-in trainers like the Guizhou JL-9G/FTC-2000G or the Hongdu L-15.
Tengo un quilo--- bárbaro y este video lo empeoro, leyendo un poco las P18N como las que tienen Nigeria son patrulleras sin misiles de 1.800 toneladas, las Type 56 las de chinas tienen misiles y un desplazamiento de 1.300, las P15 T de china de 1.460 tienen misiles, así que si nos guiamos por las notas las que vienen son patrulleras con solo armamento de cañones.
Gracie
fki
Si fueran como las OPV de Chile (por ejemplo) no sería necesario.
Pero por lo que andan diciendo (nada confirmado) apunta a que reemplazarían por lo menos a la A-69 (que forman la División de Patrullado Marítimo), por lo que entre otras cosas reemplazan al sistema Exocet montado en las mismas y tal vez también a las MEKO 140.
A-69 que ya no tiene misiles.
Y entones, os comprais un patrullero chino, con misiles chinos, que si quereis cambiar por los exocet será más dinero a gastar, por lo que la gracia del barco se pierde, o si os quedais con el que trae más ensalada logística.
Y si alguien se para a pensar, y decide lo lógico? dejarse de modernizar misiles obsoletos, comprar los patrulleros pelados y dejarlos para eso, para patrullar, y armar a las 140 con el exocet actualizado?. Porque entre lo que os gastais en modernizar el mm-38, y preparar los buques chinos para poder portarlos, ya casi comprabais lanzadores y misiles NUEVOS para las 140. Y aunque no fueran en el mismo número... la mitad de los que tenían es más que ninguno de ahora.
Y entones, os comprais un patrullero chino, con misiles chinos, que si quereis cambiar por los exocet será más dinero a gastar, por lo que la gracia del barco se pierde, o si os quedais con el que trae más ensalada logística.
Y si alguien se para a pensar, y decide lo lógico? dejarse de modernizar misiles obsoletos, comprar los patrulleros pelados y dejarlos para eso, para patrullar, y armar a las 140 con el exocet actualizado?. Porque entre lo que os gastais en modernizar el mm-38, y preparar los buques chinos para poder portarlos, ya casi comprabais lanzadores y misiles NUEVOS para las 140. Y aunque no fueran en el mismo número... la mitad de los que tenían es más que ninguno de ahora.
China, Argentina set for defence collaboration, Malvinas-class OPV deal
http://www.janes.com/article/48512/...defence-collaboration-malvinas-class-opv-deal
http://www.janes.com/article/48512/...defence-collaboration-malvinas-class-opv-deal
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